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  • In terms of the National Development plan, while the EPV is referenced for funding due the 2018-2027 period, there's no mention of the Peacock's during that period?

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    • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
      In terms of the National Development plan, while the EPV is referenced for funding due the 2018-2027 period, there's no mention of the Peacock's during that period?
      “fleet renewal and replacement programme”

      Your right though MRV purchase and Niamh & Roisin mid life refit mentioned

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      • Originally posted by DeV View Post
        “fleet renewal and replacement programme”

        Your right though MRV purchase and Niamh & Roisin mid life refit mentioned
        I figured those three were what was intended, certainly I can't see with there being enough money in this plan for two new hulls of a new design to replace them.

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        • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
          I figured those three were what was intended, certainly I can't see with there being enough money in this plan for two new hulls of a new design to replace them.
          Mid life refits are a normal part of ship maintenance an imply doubling her life at time of completion. Certain items may be upgraded/replaced and capability may be enhanced all out of Budgets. New ships are planned capital expenditure and are provided separately . P50 X 2. and P60 X 4, and MRV x 1 = 7, so replacement of P40 X 2 is required to achieve " nine ship " navy. What that might be is one for the planners. We need to consider MWCM for mine clearance using diving clearance and other modern technology using adaptable craft capable of operating ROV's. The MRV , with OPV, and MCM, could be a complete mini Task Unit with in-built durability.

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          • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
            Mid life refits are a normal part of ship maintenance an imply doubling her life at time of completion. Certain items may be upgraded/replaced and capability may be enhanced all out of Budgets. New ships are planned capital expenditure and are provided separately . P50 X 2. and P60 X 4, and MRV x 1 = 7, so replacement of P40 X 2 is required to achieve " nine ship " navy. What that might be is one for the planners. We need to consider MWCM for mine clearance using diving clearance and other modern technology using adaptable craft capable of operating ROV's. The MRV , with OPV, and MCM, could be a complete mini Task Unit with in-built durability.
            The White paper has identified Mine countermeasures as a furure requirement. I understand the MWCM function is something which can now be a containerised unit, rather than a task specific ship. The only question, and it is one covered in depth in another thread is if the P40 replacement will be of similar size or as many have predicted, just more P60s with containerised mine clearance technology. The Canadians already do it this way with the Kingstons. When the ships are deployed as mine countermeasures, they have the container aft on deck. Otherwise they are just standard OPVs.
            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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            • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
              Although crew comfort is important we are talking about a warship and above everything is capability. The focus should be on how well any design can complete a mission. Within that matrix crew comfort is a factor but it is not the most important.
              Define the mission....if the crew ain't happy you lose about 50% of your capability to make it happen.

              Extended operations are only feasible if your crew have sufficient facilities to maintain some degree of normality. This was one of the principle driving factors in the build of all naval service ships going Back to LE Deirdre....if you overlook that everything else is very precarious.

              But to the point of no people ... no crew...the NS will tie up older ships or extend refits to put new ships to sea. The day you can't put a ship to sea because of lack of crews or perceived lack there of, like some of the recent figures, your establishment will be cut and capital funding dries up.

              Raision d' etre.... put ships to sea...fail to do so.... good luck....!
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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              • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                Thats the problem here.
                While it may be possible to get a LHA or LPD within the dimensions or budget required, without the rest of the fleet being able to provide a similar layer of defence it is a waste of time because you cannot deploy it anywhere dangerous unless you are in theater with another nations navy with the right type of heavily armed vessel.
                We have a fleet of 8 OPVs, none of which is armed with anything heavier than a 76 mm cannon, none of which has air defence radar, let alone missiles or chaff launchers.
                What we actually appear to be looking for here is an OPV, that has some extra space aboard for carrying a small number of vehicles or military cargo to a secure location. Maybe even deploy to Bere Island without having to rely on Mr Murphy's ferry, for starters.
                Baby steps.
                Yet again the voice of reason!!!!
                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                  Define the mission....if the crew ain't happy you lose about 50% of your capability to make it happen.

                  Extended operations are only feasible if your crew have sufficient facilities to maintain some degree of normality. This was one of the principle driving factors in the build of all naval service ships going Back to LE Deirdre....if you overlook that everything else is very precarious.

                  But to the point of no people ... no crew...the NS will tie up older ships or extend refits to put new ships to sea. The day you can't put a ship to sea because of lack of crews or perceived lack there of, like some of the recent figures, your establishment will be cut and capital funding dries up.

                  Raision d' etre.... put ships to sea...fail to do so.... good luck....!
                  Hasn't the RN been struggling with the very issue of manpower for crews for years now?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                    Hasn't the RN been struggling with the very issue of manpower for crews for years now?
                    Possibly. It has occurred due to critical management decisions due to rapid shedding of tonnage, closure of establishments, offers of voluntary retirements, and ultimately dispersion of knowledge to civvy street, overlaid with new vessels with high learning curve demand, and teething problems with systems. All part of a PEACE DIVIDEND that has gone bust.
                    As regards our MRV and it's equipment, and it's relationship with the rest of the fleet, it is possible to meet today's defence requirements, by retro-fitting something like SEAHAWK series on the fleet. Perhaps in addition to 76mm, a Seahawk Sigma on MRV, and Seahawk lightweight on the P60's/P50's.
                    Clearance diving can be done from any ship equipped to do so but ties up a ship's crew in the grind.

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                    • You need 3 -4 TEUs spaces really for MCMV type work really

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                      • Kingston class carry up to three. These contain any combination of the following, depending on mission.
                        • AN/SLQ-38 Mechanical Minesweeping system
                        • AN/SQS 511 Side scan sonar.
                        • Trailblazer 25 ROV
                        • HYSUB 50 ROV
                        • Containerised Diving system
                        • 6 Person accomodation modules.
                        • Remote minehunting and disposal system.
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                          Hasn't the RN been struggling with the very issue of manpower for crews for years now?
                          Certainly has, but for slightly different reasons.

                          Our people are leaving because the job doesn't pay what it should... the RN, the pay is reasonable but with compulsory redundancies over the past few years they have been loosing key people forcing people to extended rotations aboard ships which unlike our own after often deployed away from home for 6 month periods.

                          Given how the RN has downsized in ship numbers the actual exit figures must be huge.
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                          • Looking at how the UK is planing to go back to the future post Brexit maybe the'll introduce the press the gang again to crew their ships ,just like in the good old days when they were a world power and all that .
                            Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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                            • Its worse, they have increased the upper age limit in an attempt to get exers back in uniform. Upper age limit is normally 37 (!!!) but is extended for those who are seeking to re-enlist.
                              Add to this the "service leaver" option, seeking people with trades to join the RN.
                              So now they have some guy who was an AB before the falklands and went on his ticket as soon as the ships started heading for colder waters, is now back and telling the young lads and ladies how things should be. He is backed up by a similar vintage former civvy street mechanic, now a CPO whose main skill in his past life is sucking air through his teeth while stating "its gonna cost ye".
                              It is not working out as they had hoped.
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                                Its worse, they have increased the upper age limit in an attempt to get exers back in uniform. Upper age limit is normally 37 (!!!) but is extended for those who are seeking to re-enlist.
                                Add to this the "service leaver" option, seeking people with trades to join the RN.
                                So now they have some guy who was an AB before the falklands and went on his ticket as soon as the ships started heading for colder waters, is now back and telling the young lads and ladies how things should be. He is backed up by a similar vintage former civvy street mechanic, now a CPO whose main skill in his past life is sucking air through his teeth while stating "its gonna cost ye".
                                It is not working out as they had hoped.
                                No for-taught whatsoever

                                They let buys go and after the fact offer golden handshakes to come back as reserves

                                It’s an issue across the British military

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