As opposed to civilian style ones? He hasn't a clue, he is way out of his depth. I'm sure his briefing paper said type, but he decided style was the same word. Probably pronounced Shtyle.
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Originally posted by DeV View PostRemember the Department and/or his private staff write does answers .... you never know
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Originally posted by ancientmariner View PostWhen there are Notice Questions in Defence answers are constructed from trawled comments obtained from both uniformed Service and Public Service sources. At least there are signs of life with a definite catalyst , the decommissioning of LE Eithne. In the meantime manpower matters need to be resolved.
I fear she did not see her full potential, I hope this will not be repeated in whatever replaces her, furthermore I hope she is replaced by 2 ships of type, (as was originally th eplan, even with P31) not one.For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
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At least there are signs of life with a definite catalyst , the decommissioning of LE Eithne
Eithne was always iconic to me, but her faults and shortcomings were every evident from very early on and while some were corrected during her life , some were never addressed. If anything she was plagued by policy failures rather than any thing else.
The restriction in availability of her flight deck to helos above the size of the Dauphin was probably that which shortened her aviation related career most
I agree that we do need two vessels to replace her if only to offer continuity through replication, although I'm unsure of what will replace her, especially at 200 million, its not going to offer a huge leap forward from where the P60 class are.Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
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Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
I agree that we do need two vessels to replace her if only to offer continuity through replication, although I'm unsure of what will replace her, especially at 200 million, its not going to offer a huge leap forward from where the P60 class are.
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Idle curiosity...
What if, instead of building another ship - who's function and form no one can agree on - the €200m were spent on upgrades for the P60 class?
Obviously it's too late to do anything about a flight deck, but what upgrades could be done to the existing fleet?
Is the P60 a platform that could be upgraded to great effect with what is a relatively little sum, or is a platform that is limited as much by its design as by its fitting out budget?
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Originally posted by ropebag View PostIdle curiosity...
What if, instead of building another ship - who's function and form no one can agree on - the €200m were spent on upgrades for the P60 class?
Obviously it's too late to do anything about a flight deck, but what upgrades could be done to the existing fleet?
Is the P60 a platform that could be upgraded to great effect with what is a relatively little sum, or is a platform that is limited as much by its design as by its fitting out budget?
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Originally posted by ancientmariner View PostThere is a professional recommendation that the new RN OPV's be upgraded to a frigate /corvette lite configuration at a cost of £120m for five ships. I was suggesting we should upgrade at least two of ours as leaders at about E 25m per ship. and continue with the MRV programme.
I can well imagine that you could put a decent radar, FCS, CIWS, guided munitions for the main gun, and something like Sea Ceptor on a P60 (though I doubt you could do it for €25m), but apart from making it a lot spikier, what more could it do?
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Originally posted by ropebag View PostAnd what would you get for €25m per ship?
I can well imagine that you could put a decent radar, FCS, CIWS, guided munitions for the main gun, and something like Sea Ceptor on a P60 (though I doubt you could do it for €25m), but apart from making it a lot spikier, what more could it do?
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Originally posted by ropebag View PostIdle curiosity...
What if, instead of building another ship - who's function and form no one can agree on - the €200m were spent on upgrades for the P60 class?
Obviously it's too late to do anything about a flight deck, but what upgrades could be done to the existing fleet?
Is the P60 a platform that could be upgraded to great effect with what is a relatively little sum, or is a platform that is limited as much by its design as by its fitting out budget?
We would have been better served to get 3 hulls with such capability rather than 4 without......
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There is scope for some modifications to the P60s.
They were constructed with this in mind.
The mast is one example, can be upgraded fairly easily to take Air Search Radar.
Bridge and Comms systems are software based so can be upgraded to take any software based upgrades.
Afterdeck was lengthened for the use of UAVs, lauching and recovery systems for these are usually mobile.
There is scope there to improve them but obviously they will never be up-gradable beyond OPV/corvette status.
The big word here is money!!
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We can't let ourselves be limited by such cop outs. In reality there are ships half the size with twice the sensor and weapons capability with simple scabbed on non through deck fit outs. There is plenty of physical scope in the P60 class. The money and political will are the lacking components.
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An upgrade of the P60 would be good but one area of concern is space, especially on the bridge as there is no provision for a Ops Room in the design.
Looking at the size it should be possible to re-model the bridge along "modern" lines and be able to fit up to 6 MFC's to handle the sensor and weapon systems of a possible upgrade. This is not a small mod and together with sensor and other system upgrades would take 6 months at least to perform. Key would be the installation of a CMS, either Saab's 9LV or Thales Tacticos in there OPV/corvette versions. This is also the single high cost item the beam counters are least likely to understand, as it is about the fusion of the sensor data and weapons control.
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Originally posted by EUFighter View PostAn upgrade of the P60 would be good but one area of concern is space, especially on the bridge as there is no provision for a Ops Room in the design.
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Looking at the size it should be possible to re-model the bridge along "modern" lines and be able to fit up to 6 MFC's to handle the sensor and weapon systems of a possible upgrade. This is not a small mod and together with sensor and other system upgrades would take 6 months at least to perform. Key would be the installation of a CMS, either Saab's 9LV or Thales Tacticos in there OPV/corvette versions. This is also the single high cost item the beam counters are least likely to understand, as it is about the fusion of the sensor data and weapons control.
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