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  1. #2401
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    Having 2 spots for a MLH is a huge capability leap for us. If you can land 2 MLH, then you could easily land a S92, Merlin, Chinook or whatever the agency you are working with require to land on said vessel, in appropriate conditions. The size alone will make landing much easier, in most conditions, as the larger hull will not have as violent an action as a 90m vessel with a single spot helideck.
    I wouldnt get bogged down on the Hangar, and what will or will not go in there. I can only presume that the hanger offers access by way of elevator or similar to the lower vehicle /cargo decks. It is a useful space for whatever you wish to use it for. Maybe even stick a mobile field hospital in there...
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
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  3. #2402
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    And of course given we are talking about a hull that's going to be around for 30+ years it makes sense to stick as much potential capability as can be afforded and see what will come up.

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  5. #2403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    And of course given we are talking about a hull that's going to be around for 30+ years it makes sense to stick as much potential capability as can be afforded and see what will come up.
    Creep, crawl, creep.

    http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...l=1#post453217

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  7. #2404
    Chief Casey Ryback
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Hope the UK parliament would be ok with using it for that.
    Why should the UK Parliament be concerned about Rosslare .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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  9. #2405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    Why should the UK Parliament be concerned about Rosslare .
    Rosslare is still tied into Fishguard due to an Act of Parliament that set the railway company back in the 19th century, it's why Iarnród Éireann still run it, it would take Westminster passing an act to say allow it to change into a Port ownership like the other major ports. Don't know if that would impact it's usage to any degree, I imagine few outside of some of the Welsh MP's would even know where Rosslare is.

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  11. #2406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Rosslare is still tied into Fishguard due to an Act of Parliament that set the railway company back in the 19th century, it's why Iarnród Éireann still run it, it would take Westminster passing an act to say allow it to change into a Port ownership like the other major ports. Don't know if that would impact it's usage to any degree, I imagine few outside of some of the Welsh MP's would even know where Rosslare is.
    New one on me, of course the State could just repeal the Act

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  13. #2407
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    Not if the arrangement suits the state.
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  15. #2408
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Having 2 spots for a MLH is a huge capability leap for us. If you can land 2 MLH, then you could easily land a S92, Merlin, Chinook or whatever the agency you are working with require to land on said vessel, in appropriate conditions. The size alone will make landing much easier, in most conditions, as the larger hull will not have as violent an action as a 90m vessel with a single spot helideck.
    I wouldnt get bogged down on the Hangar, and what will or will not go in there. I can only presume that the hanger offers access by way of elevator or similar to the lower vehicle /cargo decks. It is a useful space for whatever you wish to use it for. Maybe even stick a mobile field hospital in there...
    The RFP listed an aviation facility so that is well covered. I would like to develop the force projection capability by being able to provide fuel and essential stores to keep two additional ships on station, by transfer, at half voyage depletion. Defence needs should be catered for to complete 360 deg. coverage. The crane may be misplaced in that case, and would in any effect need re-siting , as its reach to port may make it difficult to launch the port side craft.
    Antique acts covering ports are a matter for the parliamentarians .

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  17. #2409
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    I have loads of them , including the helo inside... any Naval Officer who has even seen the inside of the hanger would know the rotors needed folding
    Time for another break I think......

  18. #2410
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    The windsurfers and bicycles fitted in fully assembled .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

  19. #2411
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    The RFP listed an aviation facility so that is well covered. I would like to develop the force projection capability by being able to provide fuel and essential stores to keep two additional ships on station, by transfer, at half voyage depletion. Defence needs should be catered for to complete 360 deg. coverage. The crane may be misplaced in that case, and would in any effect need re-siting , as its reach to port may make it difficult to launch the port side craft.
    Antique acts covering ports are a matter for the parliamentarians .
    The original RFP for the EPV requested a HIFR option only
    http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...l=1#post175989

  20. #2412
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    The original RFP for the EPV requested a HIFR option only
    http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...l=1#post175989

    I suppose I was referring to the WP on Defence with our intention of co-operation through EUMSS and interoperability of Forces and the intention that the MRV, while not carrying a helicopter would facilitate Helicopter operations and include a freight carrying capacity.

  21. #2413
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    Last edited by hptmurphy; 15th May 2019 at 20:18.
    Time for another break I think......

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  23. #2414
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    The RFP listed an aviation facility so that is well covered. I would like to develop the force projection capability by being able to provide fuel and essential stores to keep two additional ships on station, by transfer, at half voyage depletion. Defence needs should be catered for to complete 360 deg. coverage. The crane may be misplaced in that case, and would in any effect need re-siting , as its reach to port may make it difficult to launch the port side craft.
    Antique acts covering ports are a matter for the parliamentarians .
    I don't see that the crane has any purpose in Launching either Rhib or Landing Craft, that appear to be located within their own davits. its location suggests use for loading cargo from shore to deck. It also appears to be on the same side as a possible side ramp, which makes sense from a cargo handling point of view. On very close inspection, the Starboard funnel seems to have no exhausts or vents. Perhaps this is a dummy structure designed to accomodate other equipment, such as internal cargo lifts? Could explain the logic of locating the crane off the centreline.
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  25. #2415
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    And that was before they put the Gym in there.
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  26. #2416
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    And that was before they put the Gym in there.
    And the driving range

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  28. #2417
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    I don't see that the crane has any purpose in Launching either Rhib or Landing Craft, that appear to be located within their own davits. its location suggests use for loading cargo from shore to deck. It also appears to be on the same side as a possible side ramp, which makes sense from a cargo handling point of view. On very close inspection, the Starboard funnel seems to have no exhausts or vents. Perhaps this is a dummy structure designed to accomodate other equipment, such as internal cargo lifts? Could explain the logic of locating the crane off the centreline.
    The given reason for twin funnels is to accommodate a hangar with as little obstruction as possible. There is some lack of definition in the drawings when you compare two starboard side arrangements with different boat types in each and also different boat types on the port side.It is mostly a case of getting the Vard's concept of equipment operations. The RFP mentions a need to provide for off loading in basic port types- no doubt they will provide for that and maybe GYM facilities!!

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  30. #2418
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    @ancientmariner

    Which RFP are you referring to?
    It isn’t the NS one for the EPV

  31. #2419
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    And the driving range
    No we always had a driving range. MEO had a net slung across the hanger between helo visits, the problem being when the golf balls fell from the netting they took off around the hanger like missiles.......hence the fitting of a large mat to the end of the next.....
    Time for another break I think......

  32. #2420
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    @ancientmariner

    Which RFP are you referring to?
    It isn’t the NS one for the EPV
    Taking it principally from the last WP and assuming we are discussing P31 replacement, and also assuming the RFP would mirror WP outline references or wish list. I also want to add a number of HADR items to the inventory of ship's outfit. Forklifts, mobile crane, and a digger bulldozer. With such a large hangar space things aboard may need pushing , pulling, and lifting. No doubt ashore it would a necessity.

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  34. #2421
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Taking it principally from the last WP and assuming we are discussing P31 replacement, and also assuming the RFP would mirror WP outline references or wish list. I also want to add a number of HADR items to the inventory of ship's outfit. Forklifts, mobile crane, and a digger bulldozer. With such a large hangar space things aboard may need pushing , pulling, and lifting. No doubt ashore it would a necessity.
    So what you’d like to see in a new RFP then

  35. #2422
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    Regarding the RFP, specifically concerning aviation facilities, and taking sage advice where available..

    Quote Originally Posted by Herald View Post
    The folding rotor thing is losing the run of ourselves..
    Quote Originally Posted by pym View Post
    ..reading between the lines regarding actual deployments: no Irish air component, troops yes, APC's yes, helicopters: provided by them out foreign.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    ..we are talking about a hull that's going to be around for 30+ years it makes sense to stick [on] as much potential capability as can be afforded..
    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    I wouldnt get bogged down on the Hangar... It is a useful space for whatever you wish to use it for.

    Vard 7 313 Multi-Purpose Logistics Vessel

    .. I've take out my old T-Square again to have a closer look at some aspects of the recently discussed Vard design.

    An analysis of the flight hangar access appears to show a capacity to accomodate helicopters up to Merlin and S-92 size. This is an excellent provision as such aircraft, widely used in Europe for SAR and Medivac, are among those most likely to be offered to assist in Humanitarian Aid and Disaster Recovery (HADR) and peacekeeping support missions. These will be among the primary taskings of the proposed vessel and the capability to host such aircraft should be carried through to the final design.
    Last edited by The Usual Suspect; 16th May 2019 at 21:32. Reason: HADR not HADAR
    Diplomacy is a continuation of war by other means - Zhou Enlai

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  37. #2423
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    We must also solve Ro-Ro ramp types and method of loading...


    HNLMS Karel Doorman uses a stern quarter ramp, canted 45° to starboard for heavy vehicle access. It is shown here from astern, in it's folded position, to the right of the steel beach.



    Articulated at shoulder, elbow, and wrist, it appears to be an extremely adaptable concept. We could ask the Dutch for the lessons of their experience. A potential supplier is, I believe, already a NS contractor.



    Karel Doorman's quarter ramp in operation.
    Last edited by The Usual Suspect; 17th May 2019 at 16:47. Reason: Last Image Added
    Diplomacy is a continuation of war by other means - Zhou Enlai

  38. #2424
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    So what you’d like to see in a new RFP then
    Was not even sure that an official RFP had been issued for the MRV at Dept.level. Looking back at assumptions and wish lists for what was described as the P61 class, based on a MEKO design, the turnout was much different and somewhat stunted and conventional. Possibly now with this MRV type we are being over prescriptive and assumptive. It is interesting to see reference to an actual Logistics ship such as the Karl Doorman, from which we should note that she transfers liquids to her fleet, and her massive hangar has a single door. Taking in helos from deck requires using an up to 5 Wire system to haul the helo into it's spot without slipping or sliding. This can be augmented with a portable rail system within the hangar. The depicted VARD double hangar door may not be western ocean compatible and is as tight as a garage in a 3 bed semi. If the hangar is not divided then make the door as big as possible.

  39. #2425
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Was not even sure that an official RFP had been issued for the MRV at Dept.level. Looking back at assumptions and wish lists for what was described as the P61 class, based on a MEKO design, the turnout was much different and somewhat stunted and conventional. Possibly now with this MRV type we are being over prescriptive and assumptive. It is interesting to see reference to an actual Logistics ship such as the Karl Doorman, from which we should note that she transfers liquids to her fleet, and her massive hangar has a single door. Taking in helos from deck requires using an up to 5 Wire system to haul the helo into it's spot without slipping or sliding. This can be augmented with a portable rail system within the hangar. The depicted VARD double hangar door may not be western ocean compatible and is as tight as a garage in a 3 bed semi. If the hangar is not divided then make the door as big as possible.
    It’s hasn’t .... yet

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