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  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
    No for-taught whatsoever

    They let buys go and after the fact offer golden handshakes to come back as reserves

    It’s an issue across the British military
    It happens when you have two conflicting needs been driven by a number of agencies, including a civilian one. It is now a bit like the maths problem of having a leak in the bath, at so many liters per minute, and a tap filling at the same time. What speed should the tap fill in order to reduce the bath capacity from 300 liters to 150 litres, not knowing the rate of leak or fill. When civil servants are driving indifferent politicians especially those in spending departments then the highway gets strewn with "hit and run " casualties. At this time Defence and show the Flag capabilities need to stabilise.

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    • Originally posted by Laners View Post
      Looking at how the UK is planing to go back to the future post Brexit maybe the'll introduce the press the gang again to crew their ships ,just like in the good old days when they were a world power and all that .
      Jaysus if our mob go down that road, you could be back on the Eithne.......
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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      • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
        So what's your suggestion? We buy a ship that is clearly for amphibious type operations (and could have a significant number of DF personnel on board for a mission) and hope that if it's ever deployed in an unstable area that either a) somebody comes along to protect it for us or b) paint it white and hope nobody throws a missile at it?

        It comes back to the core issue of the EPV/MRV for me, if we are talking about something that's going to be doing more EU/UN operations out of EEZ in areas of instability then it's almost insane to talk about spending 200 million plus on it and then not having her fitted for defence, but that means it won't be 200 million either.
        That capability is much much more than we sensibly need. If we want self defence, enable the 76 for Strales, add a millennium gun in the stern and give it a decent rader, like TRS-4D R. The Algerian one has the same radar the FREMMs have.

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        • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
          Certainly has, but for slightly different reasons.

          Our people are leaving because the job doesn't pay what it should... the RN, the pay is reasonable but with compulsory redundancies over the past few years they have been loosing key people forcing people to extended rotations aboard ships which unlike our own after often deployed away from home for 6 month periods.

          Given how the RN has downsized in ship numbers the actual exit figures must be huge.
          The pay in the RN is below that of the NS, a newly appointed RN Sub-Lieutenant gets £32000 (€36300) p.a. In the NS the same rank gets €39200. Although for certain ratings/ranks there might be an advantage for the RN in general the NS is good in comparison.

          The problem of crews for the RN is not new even in the time of Nelson they had problems keeping the experience crews needed. And a lot of the problems from those times are the same today and the steady decline in the size and importance of the RN is an issue.

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          • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
            Kingston class carry up to three. These contain any combination of the following, depending on mission.
            • AN/SLQ-38 Mechanical Minesweeping system
            • AN/SQS 511 Side scan sonar.
            • Trailblazer 25 ROV
            • HYSUB 50 ROV
            • Containerised Diving system
            • 6 Person accomodation modules.
            • Remote minehunting and disposal system.
            The SB's have been designed to carry 3 TEU's but I have never seen a tender for any MCM equipment, and last year when the tragic accident happened with Rescue 116 it was a civiy ship that had the RoV. There are plenty of suppliers around Altlas, Saab, DCNS..... so it is not for the lack of supplier, maybe and this is more likely is that this kit does tend to cost. For their fleet of 12 vessels the Canadians have the following:
            2 × Indal Technologies AN/SLQ 38 deep mechanical minesweeping systems
            4 × MDA Ltd. AN/SQS 511 heavy-weight high-definition route survey systems
            1 × ISE Ltd. Trailblazer 25 bottom object inspection vehicle
            1 × ISE Ltd. HYSUB 50 deep seabed intervention system
            2 × Fullerton and Sherwood Ltd. 6-man, 2-compartment containerized diving systems
            6 × naval engineered 6-person accommodation modules
            1 × MDA Ltd. Interim Remote Minehunting and Disposal System

            Some like the 6-person accommodation modules would not be needed on the SB.

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            • Government policy is to replace the CPVs with similar vessels with counter-mine capability. I very much doubt that will be a 2nd and 3rd MRV. I also doubt it will be a specialist MCMV.

              It should be a CPV (not an OPV tasked to do CPV work).

              We are probably agreed that the most efficient way to do that is with a modular containerised system with a combination of diving and UUVs. For diving you need space for the LARS system and work area (let’s say equivalent to a TEU) and 2/3 TEUs (the 3rd container isn’t always used) - note that would include the current (not specialist counter mine) diving Equipment.

              Could an OPV do the counter mine work as a CPV, quite possibly but they would possibly need to have more space aft.

              There was a contract for counter-mine diving equipment.
              Last edited by DeV; 21 February 2018, 11:48.

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              • According to the FOCNS in An Cosantoir Canterbury wouldn’t be suited to Irish West coast ops and is significantly bigger than what they are conceptualising.

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                • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                  According to the FOCNS in An Cosantoir Canterbury wouldn’t be suited to Irish West coast ops and is significantly bigger than what they are conceptualising.
                  While I totally get why a design based off an Irish Sea Ro-RO wouldn't be suited for West Coast ops, just what size are they looking for so? I mean if it's to have any meaningful level of sea lift it's not going to be small.

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                  • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                    While I totally get why a design based off an Irish Sea Ro-RO wouldn't be suited for West Coast ops, just what size are they looking for so? I mean if it's to have any meaningful level of sea lift it's not going to be small.
                    they obviously don't want it to have a meaniful level of sealift.

                    cutting about the Med plucking refugees out of the water in 'Irelands most modern, most heavily armed warship' good. hanging around african ports bad.

                    LE Shit Frigate - 5,000 tons of sod all.

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                    • Originally posted by ropebag View Post

                      LE Shit Frigate - 5,000 tons of sod all.
                      I am getting a bad feeling about it alright.

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                      • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                        I am getting a bad feeling about it alright.
                        conservatism, a crippling lack of ambition and the desire for an easy life win again. they want an OPV with bigger TV's....

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                        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                          According to the FOCNS in An Cosantoir Canterbury wouldn’t be suited to Irish West coast ops and is significantly bigger than what they are conceptualising.
                          Well it is quite a bit larger than the Arrowhead 120 which, especially if ordered by the RN, must be a front runner (if you look at the Arrowhead brochure they use the P50s/P60s as references), also they talk alot about HADRO (Humanitarian Aid and Disaster Relief Operations). I know it may not be what was originally envisaged as an EPV but it does offer flexibility with accommodation for Crew plus additional 80 personnel, no specific mention of equipment though.

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                          • Originally posted by ias View Post
                            Well it is quite a bit larger than the Arrowhead 120 which, especially if ordered by the RN, must be a front runner (if you look at the Arrowhead brochure they use the P50s/P60s as references), also they talk alot about HADRO (Humanitarian Aid and Disaster Relief Operations). I know it may not be what was originally envisaged as an EPV but it does offer flexibility with accommodation for Crew plus additional 80 personnel, no specific mention of equipment though.
                            But given that Babcock and BMT are combining their designs we don't really know what will come out of it, or even if the RN will pick that design.

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                            • Originally posted by ias View Post
                              Well it is quite a bit larger than the Arrowhead 120 which, especially if ordered by the RN, must be a front runner (if you look at the Arrowhead brochure they use the P50s/P60s as references), also they talk alot about HADRO (Humanitarian Aid and Disaster Relief Operations). I know it may not be what was originally envisaged as an EPV but it does offer flexibility with accommodation for Crew plus additional 80 personnel, no specific mention of equipment though.
                              i'm pretty sure that the ministerial talk has moved away from 'EPV' and has been about MRV for a while - theres nothing 'multi-role' about an OPV however many spare bunks you put in it.

                              if they really are talking about something significantly, or even a bit, smaller than Canterbury then the multi-trole element of the buy is out of the window.

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                              • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                                they obviously don't want it to have a meaniful level of sealift.

                                cutting about the Med plucking refugees out of the water in 'Irelands most modern, most heavily armed warship' good. hanging around african ports bad.

                                LE Shit Frigate - 5,000 tons of sod all.
                                I did warn people...it was never going to be a runner in that format!!!!
                                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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