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  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Irrespective of who pays for what we need to ensure that the ship is cleared, at design stage, to be fit for all the purposes intended. Some naval vessels are designated for Military Operations Only Not War. Some are more hardened such as Holland Class and can take a more vigorous defensive action. Looking at a recent head on shot of a p60 vessel I noted all the bridge windows are obscured by equipment consoles which means that from aft of the consoles there is no near water view for the bridge watchkeepers. It must make close quarters maneuvering a bit fraught and detract from situational awareness. Visual aspects of navigation must always remain paramount as all ship surface movements are to the choice of those in control and can lead to collision through been unaware of closer targets, especially at night.
    That's why the OOW & Lookout(s) should be forward of the console for the majority of their watch. The design also allows easy access to the consoles for maintenance, unlike the bridge designs of P20 & P30 class. Also the indigenous design bridge we used previously gave everyone back problems...... the consoles were so low!

    Because our ships (post P31) weren't allowed to have an Ops Room, the bridges on the P50's & P60's have been designed to allow more planning space. Any modern ergonomic bridge design leans towards more open plan, to allow for modernization / updates / refits / planning and full optimization of space. However, on the P60s, I do feel that the movement of the MCO (Comcen) from the bridge deck to the flat behind the bridge has been a regressive step.

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    • Originally posted by Dogwatch View Post
      That's why the OOW & Lookout(s) should be forward of the console for the majority of their watch. The design also allows easy access to the consoles for maintenance, unlike the bridge designs of P20 & P30 class. Also the indigenous design bridge we used previously gave everyone back problems...... the consoles were so low!

      Because our ships (post P31) weren't allowed to have an Ops Room, the bridges on the P50's & P60's have been designed to allow more planning space. Any modern ergonomic bridge design leans towards more open plan, to allow for modernization / updates / refits / planning and full optimization of space. However, on the P60s, I do feel that the movement of the MCO (Comcen) from the bridge deck to the flat behind the bridge has been a regressive step.
      Could be the reason the Comcen got cocooned to allow for environmental concerns for equipments such as aircon and clean air? Security might be another factor. Getting rid of blind sectors should include an auto-controlled 30mm gun, covering after sector with it's own EOD/FCS.The photo in the previous threads shows consoles heights in the bridge windows. Often in bridge outfitting, the deck is false ,with services running underneath to the consoles and controls. This allows foundations to be fastened to the true deck and reduce apparent heights by the difference between true deck and false deck. Nothing should obscure a bridge window.

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      • Originally posted by Dogwatch View Post
        That's why the OOW & Lookout(s) should be forward of the console for the majority of their watch. The design also allows easy access to the consoles for maintenance, unlike the bridge designs of P20 & P30 class. Also the indigenous design bridge we used previously gave everyone back problems...... the consoles were so low!

        Because our ships (post P31) weren't allowed to have an Ops Room, the bridges on the P50's & P60's have been designed to allow more planning space. Any modern ergonomic bridge design leans towards more open plan, to allow for modernization / updates / refits / planning and full optimization of space. However, on the P60s, I do feel that the movement of the MCO (Comcen) from the bridge deck to the flat behind the bridge has been a regressive step.


        Have to disagree. There is a Tactical Operations Console on the bridge. Thats what you will find on all naval vessels worldwide. The ComCen is your rearlink communications to HQ & BLOS communications.

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        • Eithne was used by 3 Inf Bn, who were collected from Rosslare, to attack Fort Davis this week.

          The NS says on Facebook that the MRV will have "joint capabilities"

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          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            Eithne was used by 3 Inf Bn, who were collected from Rosslare, to attack Fort Davis this week.

            The NS says on Facebook that the MRV will have "joint capabilities"
            Yeah I saw those notes on the pics, both for the MRV and the comment on the RIBs as well...

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            • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
              Yeah I saw those notes on the pics, both for the MRV and the comment on the RIBs as well...
              Only a P31 type vessel could accommodate a platoon plus sized unit, carry them over a number of hours, then land them to a shore task. it strikes me that the undertaking, for a group with little knowledge of the sea and ships, has potential to unravel. it also shows the need for an MRV type vessel with sufficient firepower to support opposed landings. I must also say the 3Stars looked comfortable on board ship in the group photo. Alas only a holiday memory---roll on the Marines!!

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              • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                Only a P31 type vessel could accommodate a platoon plus sized unit, carry them over a number of hours, then land them to a shore task. it strikes me that the undertaking, for a group with little knowledge of the sea and ships, has potential to unravel. it also shows the need for an MRV type vessel with sufficient firepower to support opposed landings. I must also say the 3Stars looked comfortable on board ship in the group photo. Alas only a holiday memory---roll on the Marines!!
                Eithne carried an Inf Coy on ex before

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                • Originally posted by A/TEL View Post
                  Have to disagree. There is a Tactical Operations Console on the bridge. Thats what you will find on all naval vessels worldwide. The ComCen is your rearlink communications to HQ & BLOS communications.
                  Which is all very good when you have one net that you have to operate on. The NS issue will be when an OPV will be expected to listen in on a number of nets at the same time. We physically will not have enough sets or commops to maintain a 24/7 listening watch, e.g. ASuW, AAW, ASW, ESM, N4, Guard, etc.

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                  • Originally posted by Dogwatch View Post
                    Which is all very good when you have one net that you have to operate on. The NS issue will be when an OPV will be expected to listen in on a number of nets at the same time. We physically will not have enough sets or commops to maintain a 24/7 listening watch, e.g. ASuW, AAW, ASW, ESM, N4, Guard, etc.
                    Disagree again, staffing for roles in home waters is enough and a number of nets are monitored at present by one operator in the ComCen, with the TOC on the bridge manned as necessary for evolutions. The days for the "listening watch" on equipment is reducing with software defined radios / satellite communications.

                    In regards Op PONTUS/Sophia etc the staffing is augmented to ensure correct manning for the operation.

                    The ComCen on the P60s doubles as an operations room which is manned by Comms/Ops staff as necessary for operations/exercises.

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                    • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                      Only a P31 type vessel could accommodate a platoon plus sized unit, carry them over a number of hours, then land them to a shore task. it strikes me that the undertaking, for a group with little knowledge of the sea and ships, has potential to unravel. it also shows the need for an MRV type vessel with sufficient firepower to support opposed landings. I must also say the 3Stars looked comfortable on board ship in the group photo. Alas only a holiday memory---roll on the Marines!!
                      Opposed landings? Firepower?

                      Here's what's more likely(if lucky): A circa 130m vessel with capability to operate as an OPV/Command/Humanitarian/Hospital Ship or embark a reinforced(or not) company sized force with equipment and offload in a secure port. Sensor fit covering air, surface and sub surface(at a push) and weapons fit that will start with current fit out and hopefully expand on it in the areas of remotely operated secondary armaments and(hopefully) a short range anti aircraft/missile capability.

                      Equip any vessel bought to complete any mission required of it well. Leave the opposed landings to the big boys. If money is wasted on pie in the sky capabilities budgets will skyrocket to the detriment of the other branches.

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                      • Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
                        Opposed landings? Firepower?

                        Here's what's more likely(if lucky): A circa 130m vessel with capability to operate as an OPV/Command/Humanitarian/Hospital Ship or embark a reinforced(or not) company sized force with equipment and offload in a secure port. Sensor fit covering air, surface and sub surface(at a push) and weapons fit that will start with current fit out and hopefully expand on it in the areas of remotely operated secondary armaments and(hopefully) a short range anti aircraft/missile capability.

                        Equip any vessel bought to complete any mission required of it well. Leave the opposed landings to the big boys. If money is wasted on pie in the sky capabilities budgets will skyrocket to the detriment of the other branches.
                        If what you outline was fitted, it is a good basis for some self defence. if troops are being landed because of local break down of law and order, as defined by UN mandate or EU intervention policies, then fire support must be available, until the need or not is established.

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                        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                          Eithne carried an Inf Coy on ex before
                          Without going to the logistics of it, brief insight into the past back to Operation Mallard in 1987 where we had 50 troops and 50 Gardai embarked to carry out landings on various islands off the north and west coast to carry out searches for arms.

                          Didn't work due to lack of experience with troops and small boats, so to my mind anywhere troops train to embark / disembark from ships in small boats is an advantage, any thing else is pure conjecture.
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                          • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                            Without going to the logistics of it, brief insight into the past back to Operation Mallard in 1987 where we had 50 troops and 50 Gardai embarked to carry out landings on various islands off the north and west coast to carry out searches for arms.

                            Didn't work due to lack of experience with troops and small boats, so to my mind anywhere troops train to embark / disembark from ships in small boats is an advantage, any thing else is pure conjecture.
                            I think it was part of Bn level ex in Donegal

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                            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                              I think it was part of Bn level ex in Donegal
                              What was? Your post bears no connection to the quoted post.
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                              • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                                What was? Your post bears no connection to the quoted post.
                                Neither did yours

                                I'm talking about a tactical exercise where troops were I think picked up in Galway and landed in Donegal I think it was

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