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  • The people who serve in the naval service deserve much better conditions
    Eithne still has top class accom and facilities on board , given she is just out of refit everything is in tip top condition.

    all helicopter avionic and handling systems gone
    Not much point when the NS weren't considered when the AC bought new types.

    The equipment fitted while state of the art at the time, well past its use by date by the time it was removed. It should have been replaced and the concept of a floating command centre retained.

    I wonder will she serve another 5 years?
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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    • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
      ...Not much point when the NS weren't considered when the AC bought new types...
      That's a myopic view - whether the 139's were bought with maritime or littoral ops in mind or not they will still fit on her, as will all the AC helicopters, and even big SAR choppers can use her for HIFR.

      As she goes about her business in the Med the skies above her will be filled with NH-90, EH-101, Wildcat etc.. she's got to be the only warship in the Med that can't accept a helicopter for stores transfer, CASEVAC, security support etc...

      The NS - like the rest of the DF - has got to get out of the idea that just because you don't operate a capability you either never will, or that the people you work with won't have that capability.
      Last edited by ropebag; 17 May 2017, 22:40.

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      • That's a myopic view - whether the 139's were bought with maritime or littoral ops in mind or not they will still fit on her
        Nope, they won't, they were fitted with the arresting gear required to operate a helo from a small flight deck while at sea.

        As she goes about her business in the Med the skies above her will be filled with NH-90, EH-101, Wildcat etc.
        Two of the three won't fit!

        HIFR was carried out with RAF SAR Seakings but it couldn't land as the rotor arc was too great ..and I know because... I was the guy passing the fueling rig!!!!
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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        • The massive crane on the helideck would greatly impact on anything wishing to land or Hifr from her.
          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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          • few hours in a dockyard would fix all that.

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            • HIFR was the exercise to see if our system could refuel a Seaking overcoming usage in hover. It was believed a Seaking could land crossdeck in an emergency

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              • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                AFIK no DA05 tx/rx or displays, no Plessay Sonar, downgraded ops room, all helicopter avionic and handling systems gone. At 33 years old it is unfortunate that nobody stood against diminishing her overall dependability and planned effectiveness in her active surveillance role.
                Its possible to revive those systems by way of life extension fixes that the manufacturers provide, money and willpower being forthcoming.

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                • Originally posted by danno View Post
                  Its possible to revive those systems by way of life extension fixes that the manufacturers provide, money and willpower being forthcoming.
                  In some cases I wouldn't be surprised if the manufacturer hadn't stopped supporting those systems years ago, so probably not physically possible - in other cases it's just not economic to do an upgrade to a 33 year old ship.

                  Far easier to put new kit into the P60's as they cycle through planned maintenance, and just concentrate on Eithne's replacement.

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                  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                    few hours in a dockyard would fix all that.
                    Cutting gear and the sea would do it - wouldn't even have to pay mooring fees!

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                    • Originally posted by danno View Post
                      Its possible to revive those systems by way of life extension fixes that the manufacturers provide, money and willpower being forthcoming.
                      The DA05 had/has an update that replaces the magnetron with a solid state amplifier and adds digital processing/new displays and frequency agility etc. Just reuses the antenna. Still quite a long range piece of equipment.

                      Here is a recent upgrade from Indonesia:


                      http://www.janes.com/article/65261/r...e-indodef16-d3

                      This obviously didn't happen in the end:
                      http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...hp/t-8991.html

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
                        The DA05 had/has an update that replaces the magnetron with a solid state amplifier and adds digital processing/new displays and frequency agility etc. Just reuses the antenna. Still quite a long range piece of equipment.

                        Here is a recent upgrade from Indonesia:


                        http://www.janes.com/article/65261/r...e-indodef16-d3

                        This obviously didn't happen in the end:
                        http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...hp/t-8991.html
                        If the DA05 has been upgraded with frequency agility, maybe a Traveling Wave Tube, then I am well placated. The discussions were publicised in the second reference in 2006, so DID IT Happen! Originally there were two modes , Raw (actual ) Radar returns and Secondary Radar taking returns from aircraft transponders, in all modes ,such as Code Charlie unidentified or all identity Modes through specific IFF interrogation. In general Capital equipment suffers from Day One, due to dilution of funds, and lack of professional courage to expend maintenance budgets on high cost items.
                        Last edited by ancientmariner; 19 May 2017, 10:23.

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                        • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                          If the DA05 has been upgraded with frequency agility, maybe a Traveling Wave Tube, then I am well placated. The discussions were publicised in the second reference in 2006, so DID IT Happen! Originally there were two modes , Raw (actual ) Radar returns and Secondary Radar taking returns from aircraft transponders, in all modes ,such as Code Charlie unidentified or all identity Modes through specific IFF interrogation. In general Capital equipment suffers from Day One, due to dilution of funds, and lack of professional courage to expend maintenance budgets on high cost items.
                          Apologies, I should have been more clear the DA05 has an update available.

                          I am not aware that it has been implemented here.

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                          • Seeing capabilities which the DF had, that did not cost the earth yet provided a useful real world military function, just wither away...

                            I can't see how it will change, short of official EU pressure demanding a given set of capabilities from each member state.

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                            • Originally posted by pym View Post
                              Seeing capabilities which the DF had, that did not cost the earth yet provided a useful real world military function, just wither away...

                              I can't see how it will change, short of official EU pressure demanding a given set of capabilities from each member state.
                              A mobile radar with 130km range is a national security asset. Seeing something like that fall into disrepair is symptomatic of a wider problem within the DF-those in senior career positions are yes men who are appointed based on how they interact with the Dept and politicians rather than their advocacy of DF needs and requirements.

                              The appearance of COS Vice Admiral MM on Prime Time during the week only reinforces that sentiment. His answers to the tough questions were those of a politician and went along the lines of " I am satisfied that all branches of the DF are properly staffed and equipped to carry out their duties". We all know that is horse manure. I had high hopes for him.

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                              • We have often ignored EU pressure to do things that didn't suit us. (VRT is a prime example). Its only when you have politicians interested in advancing, and capable of getting support of the public, their fellow politicians, and most importantly those in charge of the purse strings.
                                With that in mind, we lost a huge friend to the Defence Forces in the Death of Brian Linehan Jr. He was able to provide funding for the vessel replacement programme during the worst part of the recession. Ironically during th ekey period the Defence Portfolio was held by the Taoiseach, Brian Cowen, who had replaced Willie O'Dea who had no interest in anything Defence related, unless it involved his constituency of limerick, and if it could drive down O'Connell st in Limerick for the Paddys day parade. Willie sat on the proposals for the ship replacement for no good reason, greatly delaying the entire process, and possibly costing the state a few million in the process. Cowen was able to familiarise Tony Killeen on the progress of the Plan, so he knew what was happening when he became minister and knew what the party line was.

                                At present we have no minister for Defence. The incumbent has announced his retirement, and a replacement for the position will be the job of whoever replaces him as Taoiseach. The Minister for state at the department, a farmer by profession, has neither knowledge nor interest in the position, apart from increasing his own political and public profile.
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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