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  • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
    Just to set the record straight the USCG NSC have an extensive defensive system. They have a Phalanx CIWS but it is not alone, they have a 3d search radar, ESM system, radar FCS, SRBOC chaff, NULKA decoys and a command and control system. And once the South American drug traffickers go beyond there semi-submersibles of today you can bet that some form of ASW will be armed.

    As for the Holland class, it is true they are not fitted with a Goalkeeper system and it has been one of the major complaints about what otherwise is an excellent ship. But you have to remember when they were designed it was for the North Sea and Caribbean, not for Libya or Yemen where some nut with a C801 might take a pot-shot! Also they were to keep the Dutch ship building industry in business and act as technology demonstrators. Their iMast is one of the most advances set of sensors mounted on anything other than an AEGIS destroyer/cruiser. Advanced flat panel radar, integrated ECM & ESM etc, etc. They have a limited CIWS with their OTO Melara Hitrole guns and I am sure if they wanted they could install a Rheinmetall 35mm Millennium Gun CIWS.

    The whole point of the discussion is to put the right level of armament to meet the possible future threat, and I mean future 10-15 years from now. When designing a ship if should be capable of meeting all the possible demand it could face until it receives a SLEP upgrade after 10-15 years of service. So if it is the policy of the government to send Naval Service ships into unstable regions where militants have weapons such as C801's then those vessels must have the means to defend themselves. It does not matter to groups such as ISIS that we are neutral or even if we are flying a UN flag, if they want and can they will take a shot at us. Hopefully we have learnt the lessons of send Irish military into conflicts zones without the proper equipment just to make someone in the Dail look good!
    good point - but just a reminder - Ireland isnt neutral
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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    • Well thought out by EUFIGHTER especially his last paragraph. Our neutrality depends on who we are neutral against and what is politically upsetting to the reins of power at the time. It is an antique philosophy and akin to "don't hit me I'm wearing glasses". It's supported by NIMBY's and anti-Brits.

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      • I'm neither NIMBY or anti-Brit.......I'm pro Neutrality and Pro UN......All this NATO/Russia stuff is a scam perpetuated to support various arms industries and little else.......Trump is going to spend more billions on "Defense" as apparently the US can't win wars anymore......Meanwhile half his appointments seem to be working for Putin. It's a joke.

        We should be reasonably armed to police our (land air and eez) and willing to fight anyone who might "take" them. We should also be capable of expressing our "World View" by making larger contributions to UN projects. I have no problem paying for defense as I see it as a positive contribution to Ireland and the UN.

        I think the DF should be expanded by at least 3000 with an eye to greater UN engagement as a matter of national policy. I have little patience for "Boy's Own" Wargamers. We could be "leaders" in the UN if we had the vision.
        P.S.
        I notice that Sweden is to introduce a limited conscription (3000 per annum short term soldiers) to make up numbers in their establishment.

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        • Originally posted by Galloglass View Post
          I'm neither NIMBY or anti-Brit.......I'm pro Neutrality and Pro UN......All this NATO/Russia stuff is a scam perpetuated to support various arms industries and little else.......Trump is going to spend more billions on "Defense" as apparently the US can't win wars anymore......Meanwhile half his appointments seem to be working for Putin. It's a joke.

          We should be reasonably armed to police our (land air and eez) and willing to fight anyone who might "take" them. We should also be capable of expressing our "World View" by making larger contributions to UN projects. I have no problem paying for defense as I see it as a positive contribution to Ireland and the UN.

          I think the DF should be expanded by at least 3000 with an eye to greater UN engagement as a matter of national policy. I have little patience for "Boy's Own" Wargamers. We could be "leaders" in the UN if we had the vision.
          P.S.
          I notice that Sweden is to introduce a limited conscription (3000 per annum short term soldiers) to make up numbers in their establishment.
          You will find yourself in the minority with those opinions.
          Irish people who support neutrality, generally want a neutrality that comes without having to pay for it, they believe that being neutral is a get out of jail free card and means nobody else will piss on your chips. The only kind of neutrality is one which threatens a fighting stabce and a black eye if someone threatens it. Thats not happening here, too many libtards.
          "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
          "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

          Comment


          • Not to argue the point too much but to be pro-UN has to be a dilution of Neutrality, unless the pro is dependent on who you wish to support or assist . Sweden is restarting conscription in the face of Russian adventurism in Ukraine with possible spill over in Latvia and Estonia.

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            • Originally posted by Galloglass View Post
              I'm neither NIMBY or anti-Brit.......I'm pro Neutrality and Pro UN......All this NATO/Russia stuff is a scam perpetuated to support various arms industries and little else.......Trump is going to spend more billions on "Defense" as apparently the US can't win wars anymore......Meanwhile half his appointments seem to be working for Putin. It's a joke.

              We should be reasonably armed to police our (land air and eez) and willing to fight anyone who might "take" them. We should also be capable of expressing our "World View" by making larger contributions to UN projects. I have no problem paying for defense as I see it as a positive contribution to Ireland and the UN.

              I think the DF should be expanded by at least 3000 with an eye to greater UN engagement as a matter of national policy. I have little patience for "Boy's Own" Wargamers. We could be "leaders" in the UN if we had the vision.
              P.S.
              I notice that Sweden is to introduce a limited conscription (3000 per annum short term soldiers) to make up numbers in their establishment.
              Given the utter crap record of UN operations (from abuses by UN troops, to shambolic command structures, to corruption, and ultimately the Security Council) at this stage I'd be highly doubtful about committing ourselves to it. I'd much rather EU led groups as while they aren't much better ( in many respects) at least you don't have the same issues like Russia or China dictating our deployments.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                Not to argue the point too much but to be pro-UN has to be a dilution of Neutrality, unless the pro is dependent on who you wish to support or assist . Sweden is restarting conscription in the face of Russian adventurism in Ukraine with possible spill over in Latvia and Estonia.
                Very true in regards to Sweden, it has always taken it's defence seriously and it's "neutrality" has been as morpheus put it. Our neutrality and the one that SF and the likes promote is what we have now, limited support, limited capability, reliance on our neighbours to keep us safe.

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                • Country is full of people that think everybody loves the Irish because we are not Brits. we are great crack.

                  love singing when were drunk. sure we never invaded anyone.

                  Same people would find it hard to believe the Nazis classed us as a inferior race and were to be worked to death.

                  As we have never experienced a real war they leave defence to the grown ups else where.

                  And then there is the likes of sinn fein and the middleclass lefties who would like to cut us off from the rest of the world and turn the

                  place in to another s£$t pit like cuba.

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                  • Sweden is bringing back conscription because it finds it almost impossible to recruit, so does Norway.

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                    • Is that for reserves or regulars?

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                      • Originally posted by danno View Post
                        Is that for reserves or regulars?
                        Neither - conscripts on a 1 or 2 year contract, lets just say that sometimes the motivation of conscripts can be lacking....
                        Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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                        • The UN is not as dependable or Kosher as expected. The quality of UN units in some missions are morally weak with little control and leadership. The Supers don't like some of the UN Mandates, especially the US, so funding is tardy and unfocused. The overall problem is it's size and diverse sense of rights and who should have them.

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                          • Conscripts then become reservists

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                            • And this has what to do with EPV exactly?
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                              • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                                And this has what to do with EPV exactly?
                                .

                                Nothing . Getting back to Fleet vessels and their outfits. If the present hull profile continues we must insist that the builder provides closures for the Hawse pipes , such as Buckler Plates, and also closure system for the Spurling pipes to prevent cable locker flooding. Green water on deck is common for all ships and there must not be a potential ingress point unsecured. All weapon systems and their sensors, as installed , must utilise available capability to the maximum possible. The main armament MUST be able to deal with Surface, Air , including missiles, and also shore bombardment in support.

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