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  • Originally posted by Anzac View Post
    And the South Koreans are building the second and third Dokto LHD for half what the Italians are including the CMS from the Daegu Class frigates.

    Unless the INS wants to buy Frigates and completely change its maritime Conops what use is an AOR?

    As we know an enhanced patrol vessel with sealift capabilities design exists - the Absalon Class. Get a licence to build one at a Korean super yard like DSME or HHI or if that is not possible get them to knock a concept clone off using a COTS radar, sensor and weapons fitout similar to the Becketts to keep it under Eur200m.

    The HNoMS Maud beyond the current ward and surgical theatre space does not actually have a permanent 48-bed hospital. The officers lounge, non-crew lounge, and visitors cabins can be converted into standard and Critical Care wards using stowed equipment.
    The conversion thing is fine IMO.

    And I'd keep a decent rader - be that Smart-S like the Absalon or TRS-4D (my preference). As for why AOR - I refer you back to Sparky: http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...l=1#post458646

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    • and with no beds in hospitals you would see it parked up in cork city helping HSE.

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      • And when all its beds are full, then what?
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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        • back to trolleys

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          • RHIBs in this case

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            • CB 90s

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              • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                The conversion thing is fine IMO.

                And I'd keep a decent rader - be that Smart-S like the Absalon or TRS-4D (my preference). As for why AOR - I refer you back to Sparky: http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...l=1#post458646
                It would no doubt be a very very generous contribution to European and Global maritime operations. But why try to solve other countries capability gaps when Ireland requires its own strategic projection capabilities - such as self-deployment of a company group.

                However, I think you may find that there is more to replenishment at sea operations than simply having a ship at sea. Even putting aside the vessels at sea operations to one side there is still the whole complexity and cost of additional base infrastructure involved - think tens of millions that has to be in place as part of the cost of ownership. The storage, disposal and pumping systems of a range of liquids both fresh and contaminated relating to MARPOL and no doubt EU environmental laws in your neck of the woods cannot be avoided and will be dramatically scaled up. The ongoing cost in looking after all this once the huge investment alone is also not cheap and the compliance paperwork on just the H&S side will do your head in. That is why some navies don't have a RAS capability. The forecast budget outputs for operating both the coming RAN and RNZN replenishment vessels are three times the cost of of an OPV. I have no doubt the above issues are well known to the DoD and INS and if not Treasury officials will soon discover this.
                Last edited by Anzac; 26 March 2018, 03:34.

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                • Why the obsession with a hospital ship? Where are the medical personnel going to come from to man it? Are they going to be permenantly on the books of the DoD, and in which case what are they going to do between (probably once in a blue moon) deployments (or indeed, who is going to fill their roles while they are deployed?). If Reserves are used, what will be the situation in deploying Reserves overseas?

                  What environment is it going to be used in that a land-based Field Hospital could’nt deploy in for a lot cheaper than the creation of a purpose-built ship?

                  I don’t know if these questions have been asked or answered in the thread, but it is a serious consideration.
                  Last edited by Flamingo; 26 March 2018, 06:27.
                  'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                  'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                  Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                  He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                  http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                  Comment


                  • I understand the original suggestion was to fit the mobile field hospital (which comes as a selection of interconnected TEUs) aboard the ship, connected to the services required, when reqired, say for a natural disaster somewhere or for a fast evacuation of Irish citizens from a troubled foreign state, such as the libya evacuation which we were lucky to be able to piggyback with the RN on site.
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                    • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                      I understand the original suggestion was to fit the mobile field hospital (which comes as a selection of interconnected TEUs) aboard the ship, connected to the services required, when reqired, say for a natural disaster somewhere or for a fast evacuation of Irish citizens from a troubled foreign state, such as the libya evacuation which we were lucky to be able to piggyback with the RN on site.
                      Fair enough, if the space is there it’s a good use of it. However, I’m still wondering where the appropriatly trained staff are going to come from. Does the DF have the establishment of a Field Hospital?
                      'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                      'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                      Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                      He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                      http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                      Comment


                      • On paper it used to. That said, with the equipment aboard it does not need to be used by military personell. MSF come to mind in extreme situations.
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                        • And, of course, other people have field hospitals as well - there would, to make a hypothetical example of an Irish AOR/other logs spt ship, by no physical or interoperability problem with an NS vessel hosting a French FH with a Norwegian Marine Coy providing security and an AC ground set doing the aviation support, or even a German det of ground crew and helicopters.

                          Send it to the Med for 6 months and it would be completely worked up and problems iron out by October - possibly even the AC det...

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                          • You were going grand till you mentioned the AC det. The AC are only capable of deploying outside the don if their FOB is on a main road back to D22.
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                            • Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
                              Fair enough, if the space is there it’s a good use of it. However, I’m still wondering where the appropriatly trained staff are going to come from. Does the DF have the establishment of a Field Hospital?
                              Eh no

                              Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                              On paper it used to. That said, with the equipment aboard it does not need to be used by military personell. MSF come to mind in extreme situations.
                              Absolutely but NGOs don’t generally want to play with the military

                              Some won’t even get involved with CIMIC ex’s (never mind ops)

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                              • Sorry, I’m dragging this off-thread, but I have remembered there is a precident for NGO’s operating integrated into a military in a medical setting. Medical services for the Italian Armed Forces are operated by the Order of Malta.

                                Thinking outside the box a bit, Ireland had an active Order of Malta, the operations in the Med are in liaison with the Italian Navy, members of the Irish OOM are also signed up to the Civil Defence organisation - there are lots of strings that could be pulled together if the Will was there...
                                'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                                'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                                Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                                He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                                http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                                Comment

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