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  • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Nice ship but again it has the problem that the Cobh dockyard would have to pay for a new dock or the Navy would need to go elsewhere, both doable but how much costs are involved and is it really the best spend for 1 hull?
    as iv said im no way ship minded so thanks for informing me
    Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

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    • Originally posted by madmark View Post
      as iv said im no way ship minded so thanks for informing me
      It's a consideration (don't have a clue how much of one) but the current graving dock that the Navy uses has a beam of about 21m width so it's a restriction unless the navy goes elsewhere/invests in a floating dock.

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      • Rss endurance

        Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
        I think the Singaporeans have put together amazingly good value/good ROI ships, the Endurance class and the Formidable Frigates for example, but the Endurance's are only 15 knot ships, so I doubt even if things went nuts in the Government that she'd meet the EPV requirements.
        A ship worth studying, and maybe interaction with the Singapore Navy to see what effects her freeboard ( distance loaded waterline to her main watertight deck) has between Light load and Full load. Her BHP is quite low but her hull should manage 24knots. She has a shallow draft at 5m but that is a function of her wide beam at 21m. A case for sending a naval team ( engineer. electrical, ordnance, operational) for a wee trip on board? I am interested in this one's format and Logs potential.

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        • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
          A ship worth studying, and maybe interaction with the Singapore Navy to see what effects her freeboard ( distance loaded waterline to her main watertight deck) has between Light load and Full load. Her BHP is quite low but her hull should manage 24knots. She has a shallow draft at 5m but that is a function of her wide beam at 21m. A case for sending a naval team ( engineer. electrical, ordnance, operational) for a wee trip on board? I am interested in this one's format and Logs potential.
          Hey if she could be uprated and there was interest I think it would be an epic ship and give us huge increases in potential operations. And since one was built for the Thai's the design is still current. From memory the Singaporean's are looking at modifying the design for use with the F 35B, so maybe they would end up doing the design/mod work for us?

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          • Some useful images for scale:






            As is, I doubt it's exactly the vessel the NS would want - for one thing, having looked at the accommodation it's nowhere near as comfortable as the P50/P60's!

            Could ditch the pictured landing craft for larger RIBS capable of over the horizon patrol ops?

            It does seem to have a lot going for it, especially the small crewing requirements.

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            • Originally posted by ODIN View Post
              One Merlin = 28 Troops
              One AW139 = 10 Troops (?)

              Plus, is there a naval version of the AW139?
              I our case, a can of Crown Gray matt finish B&Q

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              • Little problem with any thing built in the Singapore.

                They build for persons of their own stature so would be a little tight on space and how efficient a redesign would be is questionable.

                I think we are looking at the right type of concept in these type of vessels, would be interested how the NS would respond.

                Pyms piccies do help prove layout.
                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                  Little problem with any thing built in the Singapore.

                  They build for persons of their own stature so would be a little tight on space and how efficient a redesign would be is questionable.

                  I think we are looking at the right type of concept in these type of vessels, would be interested how the NS would respond.

                  Pyms piccies do help prove layout.
                  That's a good point, wasn't that one of the issues those three Corvette/light frigates that BAE built and then tried flogging off when the customer refused them?

                  Is there anything in current build in Europe that matches something like the Endurance?

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                  • The link shows part of the accommodation - including triple deck bunks. Undoubtedly if it's transporting a few hundred troops once in a while, their sleeping arrangements will have to be, eh, pretty austere.

                    But I'm guessing the 65-70 bods on board for its usual patrol role would want something more akin to the P60's.

                    edit: since the EPV/MRV is mooted to have landing facilities, but not specifically a hanger for heli ops - I guess that's the crew accom sorted!
                    Last edited by pym; 6 February 2016, 17:57.

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                    • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                      Well hell, there's always those 4 orphan Merlins from the RAF that aren't being respec'd to the Mk 2, what's the UK's plans with them? Also what was the price per unit for them? A quick look on Wiki says near $300 million back in the 80's, was that per unit or for the 3, has a price for the Algerian one been announced?
                      Here's a video of the Algerian version https://youtu.be/scUNuY2Z2H8?t=21s https://youtu.be/scUNuY2Z2H8?t=21s

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                      • I Don't like the big hole in the middle. she is too LPD for our overall needs. I think we are getting confused and are beginning to PUSH the PULL doors. The HOLE accounts for the very high freeboard. I think the Nordkapp, Absalon, type configuration rather than ships with large docks are more adaptable to our needs.

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                        • I agree with the far more experienced ancientmariner. We are looking at a requirement for a Truck with a crew cab and are coming back with a 44 seater bus towing a trailer.
                          From the outset, the concept has been about using the empty space in a larger patrol vessel for other purposes. Those other purposes being carrying vehicles or equipment overseas. Not an LHD or LPD. The ship will spend the majority of its life on the normal Fishery Protection duties that the other ships do, perhaps further away than the current fleet.
                          The Canterbury of NZ comes closest to what is required. However while we want an EEZ patrol vessel that can carry vehicles and equipment overseas, they wanted a vessel to carry troops and equipment overseas that could also patrol its EEZ.
                          Canterbury, failed concept that it is, is the opposite of what we needed. Absalon has always been closer to the requirement, from the outset, and many years ago the NS spent lots of time sending people to Denmark to see exactly how the Absalon concept worked. Canada had proposed replacing the Iroquois class with modified Absalon type ships.
                          But given how the MRV/EPV, internationally as a concept seems to have lost favour, would it not be better to just attach ourselves to some other European navy currently building Small frigate sized ships and include an order for 2 in their order? Like the Italian FREMM type currently being built? Better yet, lease them! (They cost €470m each) while coming up with a Irish specific layout that would be built later.
                          At this stage the priority is Hulls in the water.
                          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                          • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                            I agree with the far more experienced ancientmariner. We are looking at a requirement for a Truck with a crew cab and are coming back with a 44 seater bus towing a trailer.
                            From the outset, the concept has been about using the empty space in a larger patrol vessel for other purposes. Those other purposes being carrying vehicles or equipment overseas. Not an LHD or LPD. The ship will spend the majority of its life on the normal Fishery Protection duties that the other ships do, perhaps further away than the current fleet.
                            The Canterbury of NZ comes closest to what is required. However while we want an EEZ patrol vessel that can carry vehicles and equipment overseas, they wanted a vessel to carry troops and equipment overseas that could also patrol its EEZ.
                            Canterbury, failed concept that it is, is the opposite of what we needed. Absalon has always been closer to the requirement, from the outset, and many years ago the NS spent lots of time sending people to Denmark to see exactly how the Absalon concept worked. Canada had proposed replacing the Iroquois class with modified Absalon type ships.
                            But given how the MRV/EPV, internationally as a concept seems to have lost favour, would it not be better to just attach ourselves to some other European navy currently building Small frigate sized ships and include an order for 2 in their order? Like the Italian FREMM type currently being built? Better yet, lease them! (They cost €470m each) while coming up with a Irish specific layout that would be built later.
                            At this stage the priority is Hulls in the water.
                            Hold on, why would we go for a FREMM? I mean they are pretty much the high end of Eurofrigates, I mean the €470 million is for the Moroccan one, with the French/Italian ones coming in north of €500 million and doesn't buy us any of that type of lift capability.
                            If we wanted something upsized from current OPV's but nothing major just go for Holland class OPVs.

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                            • I like your thinking. However my point on the FREMM is the amount (a) in service at present (b) entering service shortly, and the option, as Egypt did, to lease a recently completed one, while theirs was under construction, before taking delivery of their own specific ship, with fully familiar crew already trained.
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                              • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                                I like your thinking. However my point on the FREMM is the amount (a) in service at present (b) entering service shortly, and the option, as Egypt did, to lease a recently completed one, while theirs was under construction, before taking delivery of their own specific ship, with fully familiar crew already trained.
                                But what the hell would we use it for? I mean in this thread we've talked about stripping equipment from an Absalon to cut costs. A FREMM is a full up Frigate, of much more combat potential than even an Absalon, if a micro LHD/LPD is too much of a ship for what duties we'll give her, a FREMM is even more so more ship than what we need (and drops the capability to do any significant sea lift) and requires huge supports that we aren't going to support (from crew size to combat systems). If we are dropping Sea Lift, then just go for a three set of Hollands and use them further out with a rated helicopter.

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