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  • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
    I notice on an unconnected note, there are no Air Corpse cadetships this year.
    Am I right is saying there was none last year either??
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ias View Post
      Apparently not as much as you would think, €150 million according to this pdf file, it appears a genuine but somewhat disjointed document(s), got to seite(page) 4 below the CSL:



      IAS
      Seems logical. Instead of a "proper" LPH/LPD, you are getting a conventional hull, same as found on a container vessel, with the deck closed off to accomodate helicopters. It'll do the job just as well.
      Worth mentioning that the expected future head of the USN wishes to re align USN Carrier Battle groups away from the Aircraft carrier, instead concentrating an assortment of vessels around a humanitarian support vessel. It seems it is easier to maintain influence over an area if you are providing aid to its inhabitants, rather than dropping ordnance on them.

      If the USN thinks it, that must be true.


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
        Seems logical. Instead of a "proper" LPH/LPD, you are getting a conventional hull, same as found on a container vessel, with the deck closed off to accomodate helicopters. It'll do the job just as well.
        Worth mentioning that the expected future head of the USN wishes to re align USN Carrier Battle groups away from the Aircraft carrier, instead concentrating an assortment of vessels around a humanitarian support vessel. It seems it is easier to maintain influence over an area if you are providing aid to its inhabitants, rather than dropping ordnance on them.

        If the USN thinks it, that must be true.
        There were proposals in the early 1990's to train NS cadets to fly helicopters, Air Corps objected.

        Comment


        • Not Cadets,Some commisoined officers were selected as candidates but it wasn't acceptable to the AC.

          It really wouln't have made adiffernce really as it wasn't the aircrew who were the problem. It was the aircraft and the vessel in the seas percieved for operation.

          Heli was too overloaded to have enough fuel to get it out of trouble. which was painfully demonstrated some years later, so only short range missions were possible meaning that ship had to move from station to collect the helo.

          While the vessel had great seakeeping qualities, the pitch and roll rate in moderate seas was too great for the helo to and safely....I'm talking about 5 degrees pitch or roll in this case, doesn't seem huge but was enough to halt heli ops.

          the fault didn't lie at anyones door in particular just they machines and the ships and the coditions weren't compatible. Every one tried to make it work but the fotces of nature just wouldn't allow it.

          if it was to be attempted again in the future the ship would have to be considerably bigger as would the flight deck...have a close look at Eithnes flight deck some time its tiny! Plus the Aircraft would have to be a dedicated Maritime machine proven in service and unmodified from the manufacturers specs...unlikethe dauphin which was overloaded with electronics sacrificing fuel capacity.
          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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          • Chile chose to build the Enforcer 8000, the ship New Zealand didn't buy when they bought the Canterbury. Sold for 93 million Euros...

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            • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post

              Another vessel mentioned in that article is the Enforcer 8000.

              It is 129.9m long, with a 24.8m beam and a 5.2m draught,
              Nice for them!


              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

              Comment


              • While Sweden hasn't bought any, their navy has the government go ahead to buy one of two planned combat support ships to replace two of their old tenders. The L-10 will look similar to New Zealand's multi-role ferry design, although larger in length, with the helicopter hangar further aft. There will be only one helicopter landing zone, not two, and the space before their hangar will be the location for many of the tenders work shops. There won't be any well dock alike the Canterbury, there will be a aft ramp to landing craft linkup too. Price will be in the neighborhood of 75-80 million Euros each. I am not sure its a redesigned Merwede ferry, this ship could be of another small to medium sized ferry design. 145 meters in length instead of 131 meters of the Canterbury.

                The Swedish multi-role vessel is designed to be used as a training vessel, a tender vessel for either patrol boats, mine countermeasure vessels, and submarines along with a ro-ro vehicle deck and accommodations for troops. She will also have a hospital facility and a command and control facility as well. Its been interesting what different navies have bought recently to meet their sea lift requirements.

                A link with a very small image: http://www.janes.com/news/defence/id...1102_1_n.shtml
                Last edited by Sea Toby; 30 December 2009, 01:27.

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                • Canterbury does not have a well dock either. It has a loading ramp, that landing craft are capable of offloading from. Seems to work ok for them, in ideal conditions.
                  Could be an improvement based on the design flaws found in Canterbury. I believe Sweden already experimented with operating their fast landing craft jet boat thingys from other LPDs, but the boats required preparation before docking and undocking.


                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                  Comment


                  • New Zealand had hoped to use a ice strengthened Canterbury for operations in the Southern Ocean or Ross Sea with journeys to McMurdo Sound. As for amphibious operations a well dock only provides another Beaufort scale sea state, from three to four. The New Zealand army ain't a Marine Corps. I doubt seriously New Zealand would attempt to do amphibious operations, or any landing operations during a storm anyway. It would be like D-day, Eisenhower delayed that operation a day cause the weather conditions weren't ideal. He saw no reason to have all of his troops drown before reaching the beach...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by zone 1 View Post
                      should one of future replacement ships be a disaster relief vessel helping with humanitarian
                      One of the secondary roles of the EPV is to provide humanitarian assistance where required. It is not beyond the bounds of probability that the next major large Haiti size disaster happens someplace that an Irish asset is best located to provide immediate assistance.
                      We have demonstrated in the past our capabilities, purely at skill level alone,for example when Eithne provided Electrical repairs to an Orphanage in South America, while en route to a Courtesy Visit to Argentina.
                      We have proved we can do the job. All we need is the tools. Cost is not a factor. It is clear that Larger Patrol vessels are required to survive the increasingly deteriorating Atlantic Conditions. It makes sense then that if you can crew a larger ship with a similar number as the smaller ship, you should make full use of the extra space this larger ship has provided. This is why the requirement for the EPV, found elsewhere on this site, seeks space for a minimum amount of Containers. A Container sized space can accomodate anything from modularised water treatment plants, to fully functional hospitals. All you need to provide is the means to get there.
                      Helicopters etc are another days work of course, but if you have a deck that can hold 8 containers or more, side by side, then you should have a layout that allows this space to be used as a helideck, when those boxes are taken away.

                      Simples.


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                        One of the secondary roles of the EPV is to provide humanitarian assistance where required. It is not beyond the bounds of probability that the next major large Haiti size disaster happens someplace that an Irish asset is best located to provide immediate assistance.
                        We have demonstrated in the past our capabilities, purely at skill level alone,for example when Eithne provided Electrical repairs to an Orphanage in South America, while en route to a Courtesy Visit to Argentina.
                        We have proved we can do the job. All we need is the tools. Cost is not a factor. It is clear that Larger Patrol vessels are required to survive the increasingly deteriorating Atlantic Conditions. It makes sense then that if you can crew a larger ship with a similar number as the smaller ship, you should make full use of the extra space this larger ship has provided. This is why the requirement for the EPV, found elsewhere on this site, seeks space for a minimum amount of Containers. A Container sized space can accomodate anything from modularised water treatment plants, to fully functional hospitals. All you need to provide is the means to get there.
                        Helicopters etc are another days work of course, but if you have a deck that can hold 8 containers or more, side by side, then you should have a layout that allows this space to be used as a helideck, when those boxes are taken away.

                        Simples.
                        buy a osv ahts plenty on the market just now give container space , fluid space , rov and towing ability, stick a suitably frc on it and you can do fisheries . a lot even have a heli deck with refuel ability .
                        It would all come at a lot less then 130 million . just have to omit the 76 mm and replace with a couple of smaller caliber weapons , not a big problem as the 76 mm is very rarely used .

                        Comment


                        • Just because it is rarely used does not mean you won't at some stage need it. Not to fire it, but to have the ability to fire it. The OTO is quite a versatile platform. You can't delete a defensive weapon, just because it "isn't used much". Its very presence is usually enough.
                          You'll find the only OSVs (I assume you mean Offshore Support Vessels) with helidecks are in the larger, more expensive end of the spectrum. Rarely of the "off the shelf" variety.

                          Personally I think the type of hull could be based around a research vessel, such as HMS Echo. Built by Appledore, who also built the P50s for us of course. Length is good, not too big, providing a versatile platform. Echo has been very active in Narcotics Enforcement in the carribean, a role she was never expected to carry out when she was designed.


                          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                          • I think our ships need main armament as 8 ship navy we cant afford not to have some sort of decent weapon on it full stop it would be like a mowag with a pistol

                            Comment


                            • Disagree.

                              Some of the more competent high end 25mm or 30mm non crew served weapons are adequate, Secondary weapons fit of a pair of Rh202s and a pair of GPMGs finish it off.

                              76mm is a nice weapon, but pricey and has yet to be used in anger, but its afar cry from crew served 40mm weapons, I'll go with RWS 25mm on the foclse asthe main gun with the subsidiares..seesm to work for the RN.
                              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                              Comment


                              • But the RN have Frigates and destroyers to back them up if things get hairy.


                                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                                Comment

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