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  • Originally posted by danno View Post
    I note that 30 years seems to be the accepted lifespan for the opvs. By comparison the RN expect to get between 34 to 36 years of service from the remaining type 23[Duke] class. Has anyone heard if the RN have a definite replacement design signed off for the frigates?
    Interesting on the extra lifespan, I wonder what the RN expect of the Mersey class patrol ships, as the sea states they would patrol in would be less than those in which the NS operate(or am I incorrect?)

    Comment


    • The Merseys are leased to the RN by the builders, who are responsible for upkeep. I believe they are soon approaching the end of the lease period, at which point the RN must buy outright, or allow the Builder to sell the ships to someone else.

      As for the Dukes, RN warships of this type spend a lot more of their time in reserve, and in transit to calm places, while ours spend all their lives in the harsh conditions of the atlantic with very occasional trips to the med, and for the first time this year to the Pacific maybe...


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
        and for the first time this year to the Pacific maybe...
        Did the Niamh not sail in the Pacific on her trip to Asia in 2002?
        ________
        Ford u platform specifications
        Last edited by Smithy; 9 March 2011, 15:06.

        Comment


        • Technically... No.
          Indian Ocean, bay of bengal, South China sea, East China sea, Yellow Sea, Phillipine Sea. While some provide a boundary to the Pacific, they are not considered part of same. http://www.iho.int/english/home/
          Its a grey area, but on the other hand, once you pass the tierra del fuego you are in the Pacific.


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

          Comment


          • I would reckon the Merseys would be kept on as they are relatively cheap t operate as patrol vessels as opposed to depending on medium warships.

            Given the commitment that The RN has in the gulf etc the merseys are effectively the only ships that the UK can depend on at home as refits between deployments mean most of the rest of the fleet is either engage out of area or in refit.

            The RN has relatively few minor warships , with the lost of a lot of mine hunters, Endurance etc with meduim units picking up on the Falklands patrol and such likes.

            Depending on who wins the general election in the UK these resources could be depleted even further.

            As for the Patrol type vessels the Uk has gone from five Island Class and two Castle class down to four or five River type vessels in the last 10 years. While these were very simplistic but capable vessels the numer of hull in th water at any given time was greater than that today. We are heading down the same road we wll never have one for one replacement in the curent economic climate and we don't have the capability of the RN to deploy auxiliaries or major warships in times of crises.

            If we were to be reduce to six units ..assuming the peacocks won't be around for much longer there would have to be consideration to development of some like the Scottish Fishery protection agency, where ships would operate independently of naval requirements but within the remit of fishery protection.

            The option of joining a task force on piracy would be attractive to the NS and some point some one will high light our expertise in intensive boarding in varying sea conditions and ask us to contribute at least one ship.....
            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

            Comment


            • Imagine the hassle that would be saved if we had an EPV capable of carrying some of the following?
              In connection with the redeployment of the Irish Defence Forces from Kosovo back to Ireland a requirement exists for the recovery of all Defence Forces assets that are currently located at Camp Clarke in Pristina, Kosovo.
              The Contractor will be required to provide for the following:
              Serial Task Details Date
              1 Liner boxes The pre-positioning of up to 40 liner boxes (20’ ISO Sea containers) on a phased/as required basis to Camp Clarke, Pristina. 05 April 2010(Planning Date)
              2 Haulage The haulage of up to 40 liner boxes and 9 armoured personnel carriers (APCs) from Camp Clarke Pristina to Thessaloniki port, Greece. Commencing 10 April 2010(Planning Date)
              3 Storage Facility The provision of a secure storage facility within the environs of Thessaloniki port, Greece, of sufficient capacity for up to 40 liner boxes and 60 assorted wheeled units. 10 April 2010(Planning Date)
              4 Freight The provision of a dedicated ocean-going multi modal or other suitable merchant vessel, providing for the carriage of the freight, based upon a direct sailing option between Thessaloniki port and a Republic of Ireland port. Routings are at the discretion of the Master. 13 May 2010(Vessel alongsideThessaloniki)
              5 Freight (as a supplementary or alternative proposal to serial 4 above) The provision of a last on, first off shipping solution, providing for the carriage of the freight, based upon a direct sailing option between Thessaloniki port and a Republic of Ireland port. Routings are at the discretion of the Master. 13 May 2010(Vessel alongsideThessaloniki)

              In relation to Serial 3 above, all wheeled units other than the identified 9 x APCs will be delivered by the Defence Forces to the secure storage area in Thessaloniki port. Warlike stores, i.e. UN class 1 (ammunition etc.) and weapons will also be hauled under this contract to Thessaloniki port under escort by the Defence Forces immediately in advance of the arrival in port of the merchant vessel.


              In relation to Serial 4/5 above, the requirement involves the charter of a dedicated vessel/project solution (part charter) with sufficient capacity for up to 40 x 20’ ISO Containers – a number of which (not yet determined) will contain all manner of warlike stores including weapons and the full spectrum of Class 1 HAZ goods (ammunition etc) – and nine (9) x APCs and an assortment of other wheeled units not likely to exceed 60 in number (understood at this time not to exceed 450 lane metres). A Packing List is not available at this time but will be provided to the Contractor well in advance of the sailing date. Passage for up to six (6) supercargoes (Defence Forces personnel) is also required.

              The number of containers and/or vehicles is subject to change and these changes (should they occur) may result in the modification of charges, subsequent to exchange of contracts – by agreement between the Department and the Contractor.

              All other conditions not specifically referred to in this RFT, relating to the execution of the contract, will be in accordance with conventional charter/shipping standards and industry best practice.
              Only 450 Lane meters, and 40 TEUs?


              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

              Comment


              • I noted earlier in this thread I didn't think the Meko EPV was large enough. I noted that the New Zealand army required 380 lane meters with the New Zealand MRV. The Canterbury is rated for 33 MEUs and 403 lane meters. The Meko EPV design doesn't even have 200 lane meters for vehicles. In this case the Irish army requires up to 450 lane meters. Two Meko EPVs will come up short.

                Again, I repeat for 100 million Euros, a ferry designed MRV similar to New Zealand's MRV would be in Ireland's military interest. While the Canterbury had some design flaws, Sweden is going ahead with two MRVs designed for their specifications based on a ferry. They need the sea lift to ship some of their equipment to exercises in other Baltic states, more seaborne helicopter operations, and replacements for their tenders. Not to mention for peacekeeping and humanitarian missions.

                I don't want to see the Irish military have problems like the Canadians did when using commercial shipping arrangements.

                Comment


                • People seem to have an obsession with the EPV being a large transport, without remembering that its primarily intended a Patrol vessel, the tender actually says the ability as a transport is desirable, but not essential.
                  Last edited by paul g; 13 April 2010, 13:24.

                  Comment


                  • I think the idea is if we are going to have a ship that big, we may as well make best possible use of the extra space the increased size provides us with.
                    However the flipside of that is there is little point in having lane metres and TEU space if such capacity is too small to be of any practical use. So as an example, the Kosovo repatriation requires 450lm and 40TEU.
                    It must be said that the EPV is still very much at the long term proposal stage. Bidders have offered their proposals as to what they think we would like. The actual final design is still a very long way off.


                    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                    Comment


                    • You know as well as I that a slightly larger ferry designed to Ireland's specifications can be arranged and built, for not much more. Trade troop accommodations for vehicle space and cargo space. If you are going to buy/build a ship to transport the army, one might as well as meet the army's sea lift requirements, not something wholly lacking...

                      By the way a 8-10k ton ferry isn't that large of a ship anyway...

                      When you move your furniture from one house to another you get a truck suitable for the job, you don't get an SUV...

                      Simply put, the army doesn't go anywhere without their logistics supply line in place.
                      And this isn't a one time operation either. The irish armed forces have seen action in Chad, Liberia, and Kosovo... No telling where the next place will be or when...

                      When such as ship is not being used for transport, the ship could be used for showing the flag, patrol, training, and/or as a tender.
                      Last edited by Sea Toby; 14 April 2010, 15:23.

                      Comment


                      • Given the current situation, would it be feasable to convert an existing ship? For example, I hear many Truck Ferries on the Baltic and north Sea routes are being closed down.
                        Would the cost of converting such a vessel to do mostly Offshore patrolling be of much advantage over building a new EPV fit for purpose?


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                        Comment


                        • Possibly. New Zealand had purchased a used ro-ro shipping oranges and were going to convert it to their needs, but doing so cost almost as much as buying a new ship... Of course New Zealand was adding significant troop accommodations and other military equipment to that ship which Ireland may choose not to do... I am sure whatever specifications set will settle the matter...

                          Comment


                          • Looking at the Defence Forces annual Report for 2009, there is mention of a program for equipment replacement from 2009 to 2018. Has anyone else seen this?
                            It also follost the story that the EPV proposal will continue to stage 2 as soon as OPV contract negotiations have been finalised. With contract signing imminent for the OPVs, hopefully the process for EPV can get moving quickly, in time for the immenent retirement of both CPVs and Eithne.


                            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                            Comment


                            • Again, another operation reveals the need for a vessel capable of carrying DF Vehicles and equipment.
                              Title: Return Shipment of Defence Force Assets to Sweden
                              Published by: Department of Defence
                              Publication Date: 20/08/2010
                              Application Deadline:
                              Notice Deadline Date: 03/09/2010
                              Notice Deadline Time: 12:00
                              Notice Type: Contract Notice
                              Has Documents: Yes
                              Abstract: (1) Shipment of Defence Force Assets from Port of Cork (Ireland) to Wallhamn Port (Sweden); and
                              (2) Shipment of Defence Force Assets from Wallhamn Port (Sweden) to Port of Cork (Ireland)
                              CPV: 60600000, 34512000, 34512400, 60640000, 63726400, 63726600
                              18 Armoured Vehicles comprising some 116 lane metres.
                              23 Soft Skin Vehicles (trucks, jeeps and trailers) comprising some 128 lane metres.
                              14 Sea Certified 20’ TEU containers comprising some lane 84 metres.

                              The requirement is to deliver the Vehicles and equipment
                              freight must be loaded for departure by Friday the 8th of October at the latest in order to arrive for discharge at Wallhalm Port no later than Friday the 15th of October 2010.
                              and collect and return equipment home Post NBG exercise
                              freight must be loaded for departure by Friday the 26th of November 2010 at the latest. The freight must arrive and be ready for discharge at Port of Cork no later than eight days after departure from Wallhamn Port.
                              How many Lane Metres does HMNZS Canterbury have?


                              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post

                                How many Lane Metres does HMNZS Canterbury have?
                                Canterbury as around 400 Lane metres

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