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  • Originally posted by ODIN View Post
    I wonder what the chances of a forth P60, followed by two P70's (EPV) would be.

    @Sarsfield, when your attaching the image, untick the box beside "Retrieve remote file and reference locally"
    Theres no chance, the tender was for two with an option for one more, thats been exercised. A further purchase would require the issuing of a new tender, and the process begins again.

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    • Originally posted by Herald View Post
      A further purchase would require the issuing of a new tender, and the process begins again.
      would it?

      is there legislation that requires every purchace over €X to be put out to tender regardless of what the Govt wants? i don't know the answer to that, but it seems rather unlikely...

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      • Have a look at e tenders to check the position wrt military acquisitions.

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        • EU procurement directives allow, in certain circumstances, for a 50% increase in contracts. The purchase of a 4th OPV might not need a new tender competition

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          • Ropebag, Na Grohmiti (apologies for the lack of a fada), many thanks for the very informative answers.

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            • AFAIK EU regulations would allow the DoD/NS to order a 4th (and more) of the same class. But we are likely to pay more as the option secured the set price

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              • A lot depends on what additional / new roles we want the EPV to fill (versus what is realistically affordable)

                With the cutback in overseas (including numbers on robust EU missions) is a blue/green ship likely to be used?

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                • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                  A lot depends on what additional / new roles we want the EPV to fill (versus what is realistically affordable)

                  With the cutback in overseas (including numbers on robust EU missions) is a blue/green ship likely to be used?
                  two factors leap to mind - firstly that an EPV/MRV ordered next week would still be in service in 2050, so basing a decision on how much littoral use it would get over the next 35 years on the overseas figures of this year, last year and next year would be a bit short-sighted, and secondly that it would also depend on the government wanted to continue with /return to large scale land-centric and relatively challenging Chad type operations, or whether it saw the future as being more maritime-centric anti-piracy type operations, at which point an EPV starts to look very attractive.

                  being a disciple of the Prophet Goldie Fish (PBUH), i'm a firm believer that steel is cheap and air is free - big ships cost infitesimally more than small ships, but they can operate in worse conditions, have longer endurance (more sea time, less port time) and are much more addaptable and 'future proofed' than smaller ships.

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                  • Well to be of use your talking be able to embark a self-susficient Mech Coy Gp, to give an indication of the size, approx that of HMNZS Canterbury (maybe slightly smaller).

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                    • i'm not convinced that a useful capability can only be in the form of a sustained Mech Coy or bigger/heavier - an Inf Coy with a Pln of something like Jackal could be quite useful - but actually that doesn't matter, we can see the principle of ship size not being linear with ship price: the MEKO MRV was about (iirc, and i'm old, and it was a long time ago...) 5,000 tons costing around €100m, HMNZS Canterbury is 9,000 tons at about €120m, and the Bay class ships at 16,000 tons at £130m.

                      i personally take the view that if you're going to go to the bother of an MRV - not an EPV - but an MRV, one of who's prime roles is moving PK/PE forces from the sea to the land, then you need something of Coy+ size with a biiiiig helideck, proper GBFO cranes and a well-deck (or clamshell bow doors), otherwise you're got an asset who'se limitations are such that in the 30 years you operated it you'd never actually use it. moreover, if the port you're moving stuff into is in sufficient nick/security that you can unload like a commercial carrier, then you may as well just hire a commercial carrier...

                      if we're talking about an EPV then the moving stuff role is very much secondary, and you're looking at a 5-6000 ton Samuel Beckett class vessel with a decent size helideck, room for some TEU's and lots of spare space that could be accommodation, cargo, or even the fabled hospital...

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                      • Here is a cutaway illustration of the Damen Crossover XO 131 C Combatant.
                        There is a similar size variant of the Class built to commercial rules is called the XO 131 L Logistic, however I cant find a cutaway illustration of it.
                        Its 131 meters long, max speed is 18-22kns, minimum crew of 56 and has room for 200 additional personnel.



                        Some illustrated examples of different configurations for different roles.

                        Amphibious Raid


                        Anti Piracy


                        Anti Submarine Warfare (ASW)


                        Humanitarian Aid & Disaster Relief (HADR)
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by Rhodes; 9 April 2015, 20:53. Reason: Fixed images

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                        • Any EPV will send the vast majority of its life (80%+) doing fisheries protection, ATCP etc. It is actually more likely to be 90+%.

                          The DF, at most, will need the capability to embark a Mech Inf Coy / EUBG ISTAR TF as part of an early entry force. It will be with the consent of the parties to the conflict, with a relatively low risk of armed opposition and will always be part of a larger force (therefore max 76mm, 20mm and 12.7mm's.

                          Realistically we are probably talking 2/3 exercises with troops embarked annually (at most) and a deployment/resupply every 2-3 years.

                          If it's early entry, then it will be mech (force protection) or engineers to set up camp (lots of TEUs, plant and some mech inf).
                          Last edited by DeV; 9 April 2015, 16:25.

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                          • If you have a suitable off the shelf MRV/EPV/OPV there are many international roles available for Governments to pursue on a voluntary or Alliance based scenario. Imagine the Icelandics are in the Med. rescuing immigrants and the Swedes are off Africa in motorboats on pirate patrols and we are still measuring capability.
                            Ships often get mismatched such as logistic ships doing Customs patrols and Frigates doing pirate patrols. You have to be flexible, expedient, and act with available assets.
                            To avoid providing a day 1 ship landing troops, vehicles and stores, it would be better to provide a resupply capability for men, and logistics and also an on ship medical facility, on a separate ship if required to remain in Theater.
                            In regards to standard of building, we tended to build to Llyods Rules which at times required heavier construction on housing, decks etc. This was to cover the ship for the first year or so by Llyods Insurance. Within the standard you can put in Naval Standard facilities such as equipment, insulation, watertight integrity, watertight sub-division, floodable compartment survivability etc. It just takes money!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                              Any EPV will send the vast majority of its life (80%+) doing fisheries protection, ATCP etc. It is actually more likely to be 90+%.

                              The DF, at most, will need the capability to embark a Mech Inf Coy / EUBG ISTAR TF as part of an early entry force. It will be with the consent of the parties to the conflict, with a relatively low risk of armed opposition and will always be part of a larger force (therefore max 76mm, 20mm and 12.7mm's.

                              Realistically we are probably talking 2/3 exercises with troops embarked annually (at most) and a deployment/resupply every 2-3 years.

                              If it's early entry, then it will be mech (force protection) or engineers to set up camp (lots of TEUs, plant and some mech inf).
                              Actually Naval Service ships only spend about 40% of their lives doing fisheries protection or on patrol, the other 60% is spent tied up in Cork Harbour, so there is plenty of spare capacity.
                              The capability to lift a Mech Inf Coy plus a CSS element and keep it supplied for 20-30 days would be a minimum and not the most. Anything less would be a waste of money.
                              Main armament should be a 127mm gun. New GPS or IR precision guided 127mm ammo such as the Oto Melara Vulcano has a range of up to 100km for use in naval fire support or ASuW role. A lower cost alterative to guided missiles. Also should be able to use existing DF equipment such as the RBS 70 for air defence.
                              A LCM capable of transporting a Mowag or DROPs truck will also be needed.
                              Such a ship would see at least one overseas deployment a year, with some years seeing multiple deployments.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                                Here is a cutaway illustration of the Damen Crossover XO 131 C Combatant.
                                There is a similar size variant of the Class built to commercial rules is called the XO 131 L Logistic, however I cant find a cutaway illustration of it.
                                Its 131 meters long, max speed is 18-22kns, minimum crew of 56 and has room for 200 additional personnel.



                                Some illustrated examples of different configurations for different roles.

                                Amphibious Raid


                                Anti Piracy


                                Anti Submarine Warfare (ASW)


                                Humanitarian Aid & Disaster Relief (HADR)

                                Photy no worky. Do you have a link to the source?
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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