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  • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Who said you had to land a helicopter to be enabled for heli ops. Heli ops could be supported by being able to offer a HIFR , by means of carrying a modular fuel transfer system, the P61s already have this capability.

    I would have liked it to have been more specific by saying that the ship would be equipped to land and operate a helo as this would imply the systems required to actually land a helo would be put in place which would involve landing aids, firefighting and specifically trained people along with fueling capability, the things that truly offer helicopter enablement.
    As we know there is a requirement for maritime states to provide ETV facilities. There is no mention in the White Paper of an ETV, however it does mention an MRV enabled for Heli-Ops. It is not impossible to include such abilities in an MRV by providing the BHP and a suitable Bollard pull, and include a flight deck without the shed. The key matter is allowing a heli shut down, in which case the ship needs a Nato approved start facility and current. Other matters are Grid, HIFR, and fuel handling which might involve those that oversaw the demise of our last air capable ship. My advice is don,t paint yourself into a corner by getting other units involved. Hire in expertise as appropriate.
    The Eithnes deck could be restored by unbolting the obstructions for land-ons. There was a stabilised Horizon bar but that might not be necessary, in decent weather with an FDO. The grid is also absent so a stay on board would require a tie down facility.

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    • Problems with that are an ETV with the required bollard tow will be slow to be an OPV, won't be able to carry the troops and equipment to be an MRV and won't have the armament to do either.

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      • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
        As we know there is a requirement for maritime states to provide ETV facilities. There is no mention in the White Paper of an ETV, however it does mention an MRV enabled for Heli-Ops. It is not impossible to include such abilities in an MRV by providing the BHP and a suitable Bollard pull, and include a flight deck without the shed. The key matter is allowing a heli shut down, in which case the ship needs a Nato approved start facility and current. Other matters are Grid, HIFR, and fuel handling which might involve those that oversaw the demise of our last air capable ship. My advice is don,t paint yourself into a corner by getting other units involved. Hire in expertise as appropriate.
        The Eithnes deck could be restored by unbolting the obstructions for land-ons. There was a stabilised Horizon bar but that might not be necessary, in decent weather with an FDO. The grid is also absent so a stay on board would require a tie down facility.
        When did they ever listen?

        Putting on all the appropriate kit to someone else spec and keeping it to that spec has never been our forte.
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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        • The reports say:
          Bollard pull of 100-150 tonnes will mitigate the vast majority of incidents
          Bollard pull of 80-100 tonnes will provide considerable utility (opportunity for multi purpose vessel)

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          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            Problems with that are an ETV with the required bollard tow will be slow to be an OPV, won't be able to carry the troops and equipment to be an MRV and won't have the armament to do either.
            Not in every case. The French ETV's such as ABEILLE BOURBON have 19.8knots with 4x 5000bhp engines giving 200t bollard pull. Any ship of sufficient size can be fitted/refitted for such roles using accommodation units and bolt on armament packages. Naval ships have towed each other successfully even at high speed. Testing man made towing hawsers a cruiser towed her sister ship from Gibralter to Uk at high speed. The rope was turned around the accommodation block to give a strong towing point. At over 20 knots it was inclined to squeeze the superstructure, but it worked.

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            • David Cameron announced as part of the UK Defence Review that the RN will get 8 rather than 13 Type 26's frigates with a new class of light frigate to make up the difference and possibly allow the purchase of more than 13 total frigates. Obviously no details of the light frigate have emerged yet but I wondered if it would be something the NS would be interested in as a candidate for the EPV.

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              • HMS Ocean will be available for reasonable offers around 2018 - she's as Enhanced a Patrol Vessel as anyone is likely to want...

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                • She was also built with a 20 year lifespan in 1994/1995.
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                  • i know, it was a slightly ironic post...

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                    • We'll wait for one of the QE carriers to be mothballed thank you very much. Then we can Mothball Baldonnel and fly everything off the Through Deck Patrol Vessel.

                      Last edited by pym; 24 November 2015, 20:26.

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                      • So the MRV "will not carry a helicopter, it will be enables for helicopter operations and will also have a freight carrying capacity".

                        So at the low end your probably talking HIFR with 5 X TEU and at the high end a flight deck capable of carrying a Bn Gp

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                        • the khareef class looks nice, minus the missiles of course!

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                          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            So the MRV "will not carry a helicopter, it will be enables for helicopter operations and will also have a freight carrying capacity".

                            So at the low end your probably talking HIFR with 5 X TEU and at the high end a flight deck capable of carrying a Bn Gp
                            Why only 5 now?
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                            • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                              Why only 5 now?
                              Ok 10, what I'm trying to say is the minimum that could be defined as a freight carrying capability

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                              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                                Ok 10, what I'm trying to say is the minimum that could be defined as a freight carrying capability
                                that minimum looks pretty minimum - i'm reminded of the hoo-haa when an AC C-235 took five bags of Haribo and a some gentlemans literature to Beruit international airport and people used the words 'cargo', 'transport' and 'airlift' about the trip.

                                which UPS would have done for €12.70 next day delivery...

                                unless the EPV/MRV/whatever-its-called-this-week can take a full Coy Gp and all its gear, then its not worth bothering with the cargo/sealift aspect of it, just stick to range, flight deck, sea-keeping, armament and emergency berths for NCE's, and make it an Enhanced Patrol vessel. 5 TEU's will go in the back of a C-17, its not worth designing a ship around such a capability.

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