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  1. #76
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoker
    Based on what Irish sea ferry built in Holland?
    From the attached .pdf file it is based on a Manx ferry.

    The Absalon class
    http://www.navalhistory.dk/English/T...lass(2004).htm

  2. #77
    Old Redeye
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    Dev,

    Are you confused? I don't think Absalon is based on a ferry - more like previous Odense built warships for the RDN. Now, the MRV for New Zealand is based on a ferry, see the tenix link three posts above.

    Cheers

  3. #78
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    I think we should rule out Absalon from the start. It is way more warship than we will ever need.

    Unless that id you are a certain person who believes a thread IMO mods invented some time ago...

    http://www.irishmilitaryonline.com/b...hlight=absalon

  4. #79
    "Nice ass, Samson..." mutter nutter's Avatar
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    the problem with the Tenix MRV maybe that it look's too much like a LPD and we all know the crusties will raise shit over it........probably claim we're building it to help the EU RRF to invade Africa again

  5. #80
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Who cares what the crusties think. Tell them its a ferry to collect refugees from Nigeria.

  6. #81
    "Nice ass, Samson..." mutter nutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish
    Who cares what the crusties think. Tell them its a ferry to collect refugees from Nigeria.
    Politician's who hold the wallet,do, or to be more precise, they'd care what influence the crusties would have on the oridinary public who don't know much about the military, oh I'm sure the crusties would not bring up what they themselves would think the ship was for, the usual "we're throwing away neutrality", or going on "imperilist adventures", the issue of how expensive it is, why do we need it, it's an offensive weapon system, would be used against it, no matter what the truth is, it alway's get's buried in bullshit, but you'd have muppet's like Matt Cooper bleeting on again about "expensive toy's for the boy's" like he did when the Javelin's were being bought, I'm sure that gobshite Barret would be all over the place complaining, and you know as well as I do, that one whiff of controversey and the politician's will drop any ship building project like the MRV , maybe I'm being just pessimistic but it's just a feeling I have about it

    sorry for the rant

  7. #82
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    The crusties are clueless when it comes to the naval service(much the same as the rest of the country). When GWB visited shannon,their experts decided Eithne was a US naval vessel sent to the shannon estuary to protect him.
    As for matt COO COOper he is too liberal for his own good. The anti war made no comment whatsoever when we went to the Old enemy 5 years ago and got them to build us 2 new ships. Its the job of the DF press office to provide the correct and relevant information to prevent distortion of the real story. Emphasising the vessels abilities in:

    pollution control,
    disaster relief

    (if on the off chance the vessel were in a tsunami affected area),
    humanitarian aid
    ,fisheries protection and
    troop transport.

    Its all about marketing.

  8. #83
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Redeye
    Dev,

    Are you confused? I don't think Absalon is based on a ferry - more like previous Odense built warships for the RDN. Now, the MRV for New Zealand is based on a ferry, see the tenix link three posts above.

    Cheers
    No not confused, from the .pdf file attached to this thread (of the New Zealand MRV) - the tenix link - the MRV is based on a Manx ferry.

  9. #84
    Aha: Death=Preconception Lordinajamjar's Avatar
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    Goldie, since it is officially getting about near the time to replace at least one of the P20s' just how soon do you think a firm order might be placed? If one of the P20's is really being decomissioned in 2007 the procurement tender should be about ready to go out on the streets. Do you really believe that anything other than another P50 is really on the cards? These rumours of a larger vessel are they really anything more than just pie in the sky?
    Last edited by lordinajamjar; 26th July 2005 at 07:55.

  10. #85
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Well the facts,as I have them are:
    The east wall of the basin in Haulbowline,never in the past used by the Naval service has been dredged to a depth deeper than the rest of the basin. ask anyone why(regardless of rank) and they will say its for the new ship.

    Ask anyone if they heard the rumour,and everyone in the NS will reply"the blue/green ship?"

    Everyone in the NS also agrees that Emer is on her last legs.

    There are other sources I have that I cannot talk about,needless to say they are reliable.

    The only variable is the Dept of Finance.

  11. #86
    6-40509-04014-7 yooklid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish
    The only variable is the Dept of Finance.
    That's a HELL of a variable.
    Meh.

  12. #87
    Aha: Death=Preconception Lordinajamjar's Avatar
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    Well Goldie I guess we will soon know then one way or the other. I daresay that the morale of the NS would be dampened a bit then if the rumour turns out to be false. From what you've presenetd though there seems to be reasonable case for optimism. Fingers crossed.

  13. #88
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    The way I Understand,how these things work is that the military authorities identify a requirement,look at how others do it,decide what they want and then present their proposals to the department of defence,who propose it to the Dept of finance,who decide whether or not the funds are there. Then it is tendered for,with experts wording the tender in such a way that the type of vessel originally considered can be specified. In its short history,the NS has learnt a lot about ship procurement and design. In the Case of the P50 class,Design was left to KMM, who came back with a vessel that has preformed excellently,with a few minor flaws which were quickly rectified. Eithne Could have been an excellent class too(and is an excellent vessel),If dockyard disputes and internal difficulties within the Defence forces had not hindered it so much.
    Peacocks were an opportunity that we happened to be ready for,as a replacement for the Minesweepers had long been sought,and these vessels provided a cost effective option,which has payed off. While the P20 class has for many years been the blueprint for all similar sized coastguard vessels in the north atlantic.
    The latter 2 P20 class have a lot more life in them than Emer has. The current concentration in the naval industry towards anti terrorist EEZ patrolling,has provided the market with a wide range of off the shelf options,such as the British River class,KMMs variants(as seen to enter service in the next few years with the NZ navy),and many more.
    Our advantage is we have been involved in EEZ patrolling for many years. We know what we need. Our ships are equipped with equipment larger supposedly better equipped Navies only recently realised they needed, such as RIB boarding boats,Visual weapon targetting,low density crew accomodation.
    When the decision is made,because of the tight purse strings,the best value for money will be the key.

  14. #89
    6-40509-04014-7 yooklid's Avatar
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    How about some ex-yank equipment?

    USS Racine is in reserve

    http://www.navsource.org/archives/10/161191.htm

    And the Aussies have done a nice job with the one they aquired

    http://www.navy.gov.au/ships/manoora/default.htm

    Here's an article on the refit

    http://www.sutcliffegallery.com.au/k...it/refit1.html
    Last edited by yooklid; 29th July 2005 at 20:39.
    Meh.

  15. #90
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    how many does it take to crew her
    There is no problem that cannot be fixed with high explosive.

  16. #91
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    Ships Company 182

  17. #92
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    do we have enough crew for her so? I thought there was a manpower shortage in the service at the moment
    There is no problem that cannot be fixed with high explosive.

  18. #93
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    I think the second hand stuff has been ruled out.
    The above mentioned US vessel is older than the last vessel disposed of by the Irish Naval service, and a lot less modern in equipment. To convert it,as the Aussies did to a vessel which had not been lying rusting at anchor since 1996,would cost as much as a newbuild.

  19. #94
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoker
    Based on what Irish sea ferry built in Holland?

    The Multi Role Vessel (MRV)



    The MRV is contracted-out to Merwede Shipyard in the Netherlands, but will be sailed to NZ or Australia for final fit-out. The MRV should be delivered to the RNZN in late 2006.
    Tenix's MRV as a design based on a commercial Ro-Ro ship, BEN-MY-CHREE in operation in the Irish Sea. Tenix's existing facilities could handle building the ship, but the Dutch yard offered the best use of the facilities available in order to get the ship to the RNZN as soon as possible.

    The MRV will have diesel-electric propulsion and a max speed of 19 knots. The MRV is intended to provide a sealift capability for the transport and deployment of equipment, vehicles and personnel, and to be capable of transferring cargo and personnel ashore when port facilities are not available.

    Displacement: 8000 tonnes
    Length overall: 131 metres
    Beam: 23.4 metres
    Speed: 19 knots


    Complement: Core ship's company: 53
    Flight personnel: 10
    Government agencies: 4
    Army ship's staff: 7
    Trainees: 35
    Troops: 250
    Total: 360


    Propulsion: Diesel engines

    Flight deck: Space for two helicopters

    Helo
    The NH90 helicopter has been selected to replace the RNZAF's Iroquois utility helicopters. It will be able to operate from the MRV carrying Army equipment from the ship to shore.
    http://www.navy.mil.nz/visit-the-fle...or/default.htm


    More details on Ben-My-Chree
    Interestingly,the original Ben-My-Chree was used as a troopship during WW2.

  20. #95
    "Nice ass, Samson..." mutter nutter's Avatar
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    Goldie, would the MRV be your personel choice for a new ship, if you had to choose?

  21. #96
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mutter nutter
    Goldie, would the MRV be your personel choice for a new ship, if you had to choose?
    If you mean the Kiwi MRV,No. Its size is excessive for a vessel which would spend the majority of its time engaged in duties it was not designed for,ie routine Patrol.
    Its fine for the Kiwis,as they have a large section of the pacific to look after,and have a requirement for a ship to bring their own military vehicles between the islands in their own nation,so a ferry type makes sense. The convenience of Stern and Side loading ramps on the hull is outweighed by the extra maintenance these occasionally used features will require.

    The Meko 200 MRV to me is more suitable,as it is designed,to quote Blohm and Voss
    as a long range, high endurance cutter with the enhanced flexibility to operate as a true Multi-Role Vessel "MRV" with additional mission capabilities
    which would be similar to the role Eithne is currently carrying out.
    In addition,MEKO ships are far more adaptable in the long term should mid life equipment refits be required.

    I assume the Meko designs were aimed at the Kiwi Project Protector plan. The Meko 100 OPV is worthy of consideration for future vessels also,but thats another topic.

  22. #97
    Old Redeye
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    Right On Goldie. Good analysis, correct conclusion. Of course something larger and more capable would be nice, but a MEKO 200 would be excellent return for the expenditure, is sustainable from every perspective and would adequately satisfy NS outstanding requirments. I say order one ASAP and definetely keep the 100 design in mind for subsequent requirements.

  23. #98
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    Is the MEKO 200 (ANZAC Frigate etc.) not designed to full naval standards with all the associated extra costs that this apparently brings?

    Both the Danish and the NZ ships are supposed to be designed to commercial/civil standards in order to save costs are they not?

    Even taking into account the above a fleet of MEKO 100s and 200(s) would be nice though, although I thought that the "100" design was beaten by the Roisin design for the OPV?

    IAS

  24. #99
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    The Meko 200 MRV is not the Anzac frigate. The only feature they share is the designing Dockyard.(Blohm and Voss). the MEKO system refers to a method of construction,rather than a design class.

    What do you mean by "naval standards"?

  25. #100
    C/S CTU's Avatar
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    Golide I think ias confused the Meko 200 frigate with the Meko 200 MRV
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed! I mean, annihilation’s bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

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