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  • Not sure what you mean when you say huge overkill (do you agree or disagree)

    It would be a sea change (pun intended) in Irish foreign policy
    Last edited by DeV; 8 February 2016, 22:07.

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    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
      RFT published for RoRo or similar merchant vessel to bring Irish elements of EUBG to Germany
      Leaving from Dublin Port for a change. East must be lead this time.
      2x Scania DROPS
      10x MOWAG APC
      16x Pajero
      2x Scania 6x6
      10x LTAV
      1x 8x8 Recovery
      2x Trailer DROPS
      6x Trailer for Pajero
      1x 20 foot Fuel Pod
      1x DURO 4x4
      2x Transit Mini Bus
      1x Merlo Telehandler.

      in addition to 20x TEU.

      Typical Load for overseas excursion by the looks of it.
      Total Weight in the region of 700Tonnes between freight and vehicles. Lane Metres required in the region of 315m plus 20 TEU spots.

      You won't fit that in an OPV. You would however easily fit it in a vessel such as HMNZS Canterbury, with all her flaws. (403LM & 33 TEU).
      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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      • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
        Leaving from Dublin Port for a change. East must be lead this time.
        2x Scania DROPS
        10x MOWAG APC
        16x Pajero
        2x Scania 6x6
        10x LTAV
        1x 8x8 Recovery
        2x Trailer DROPS
        6x Trailer for Pajero
        1x 20 foot Fuel Pod
        1x DURO 4x4
        2x Transit Mini Bus
        1x Merlo Telehandler.

        in addition to 20x TEU.

        Typical Load for overseas excursion by the looks of it.
        Total Weight in the region of 700Tonnes between freight and vehicles. Lane Metres required in the region of 315m plus 20 TEU spots.

        You won't fit that in an OPV. You would however easily fit it in a vessel such as HMNZS Canterbury, with all her flaws. (403LM & 33 TEU).
        Any idea if Absalon or Damen XO could handle that load?

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        • Just an idle thought here, would there be any advantage in having a fleet replenishment vessel converted from a redundent RO-RO, which could carry out a transport role, ok, it would be a job to put a pop gun on the foredeck, but as I say just an idle thought?
          "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
          Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
          Illegitimi non carborundum

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          • "Any idea if Absalon or Damen XO could handle that load?"

            I actually was thinking the same thing myself and had a look at the Absalon wiki page. The answer is it's not immediately clear. For example lane metres are not provided although it does say it can embark an infantry company and support vehicles. I found more detailed info on Naval technlogy.com

            Which states "A roll-on roll-off ramp installed at the stern of the ship accesses the flex deck (flexible deck). The flex deck, providing 915m², and 250m of parking lanes, is about 90m long. The reinforced deck can embark vehicles up to 62t such as the Leopard II main battle tank."

            It also goes on to say re accomodation "The Absalon class has a crew of 100. Permanent accommodation is also included for up to 70 additional personnel such as combined or joint task force headquarters staff. Container accommodation for an additional 130 forces personnel can be installed on the flex deck. The ship has galley and personnel facilities for up to 300 embarked passengers and crew."

            so clear as mud as far as I can see! :-)

            Bottom line is probably not all of the vehicles outlined above but probably quite close. Especially it it's just the vehicles as I get the impression that the above mentioned container units for accomodating troops get stored on the Ro-Ro deck (but I could be wrong)

            I'll leave someone with proper naval experience and or knowledge provide a more comprehensive rpely.

            The two Absalon Class vessels, built by Odense Steel Shipyard for the Danish Navy, are flexible support ships (combat support…


            interesting page, an Absalon would be great for the NS but probably a little overkill in terms of it's warfighting capability.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
              Not sure what you mean when you say huge overkill (do you agree or disagree)

              It would be a sea change (pun intended) in Irish foreign policy
              Neither agree or disagree, just stating using an anti submarine frigate for FP ops is huge over kill.
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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              • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                Neither agree or disagree, just stating using an anti submarine frigate for FP ops is huge over kill.
                Agreed

                Comment


                • I already posted (probably a few pages ago at this stage) that Absalon doesn't have enough lane metres to take an Irish EUBG contingent. Banner its in your post, 250 lane metres (ie 20% short of what is required).

                  Everything is stored on the Flexdeck (the RoRo deck), be it container accomodiation or vehicles, unless you use the helideck and hanger and then how do you get them off?

                  Absalon actually isn't big enough for a single lift.

                  Can't get info on the lane metres of the XO.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ias View Post
                    Any idea if Absalon or Damen XO could handle that load?
                    Originally posted by Turkey View Post
                    Just an idle thought here, would there be any advantage in having a fleet replenishment vessel converted from a redundent RO-RO, which could carry out a transport role, ok, it would be a job to put a pop gun on the foredeck, but as I say just an idle thought?
                    As a few people have said, would possibly be ok so long as it is always full and you never want to use it an a PV.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Turkey View Post
                      Just an idle thought here, would there be any advantage in having a fleet replenishment vessel converted from a redundent RO-RO, which could carry out a transport role, ok, it would be a job to put a pop gun on the foredeck, but as I say just an idle thought?
                      How could you add on the Fleet Replenishment/refueling aspect to a Ro-Ro, the Dutch JSS was a purpose built design for such requirements but it cost €300 million, and I don't know if it could take the Battlegroup lift either?

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                      • A RoRo ferry would probably provide enough lane metres.

                        However,
                        It will be confinded to relatively calm waters, generally not far offshore and the crew (and vessel) will suffer when unladen.

                        A fleet replenishment role isn't necessarily required
                        Last edited by DeV; 9 February 2016, 16:01.

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                        • The ABSALON in its best version can carry 55 vehicles on 245 lane metres. In Danish terms it can insert " most" of a reconnaissance battalion. It has a flexible role capability ranging from transport, anti-piracy, multi-defence/offence( including mine laying), act as a hospital ship, and provide containerised accommodation. It can accommodate a Command Headquarters in a designed container unit plus HQ staff. This type of ship would be most suitable if capable of OPV duties in an unloaded but ballasted condition. It is a MRV par excellence.
                          Ships used for landings in an non-port scenario are totally different. They have bow doors or are large LPDs. The former drive off their equipment over the beach and the latter boat their equipment and personnel onto the beach using LCP's and LCVP's.

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                          • Malaysia is one of the few countries, other than NZ that has built ships to this concept.
                            KD MAHAWANGSA and KD Sri Indera Sakti are both in the region of 4000 tonnes, 100m Long and have space for Vehicles and TEU, though not sufficient to carry the detachment heading with EUBG shortly.


                            Both are armed with Bofors 40mm enclosed turrets fore and aft.
                            Both have been engaged in Anti Piracy missions in the Indian ocean, with the helicopters from KD Sri Indera Sakti repelling a pirate attack against an Indian Oil tanker in 2009
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                              Malaysia is one of the few countries, other than NZ that has built ships to this concept.
                              KD MAHAWANGSA and KD Sri Indera Sakti are both in the region of 4000 tonnes, 100m Long and have space for Vehicles and TEU, though not sufficient to carry the detachment heading with EUBG shortly.
                              Both are armed with Bofors 40mm enclosed turrets fore and aft.
                              Both have been engaged in Anti Piracy missions in the Indian ocean, with the helicopters from KD Sri Indera Sakti repelling a pirate attack against an Indian Oil tanker in 2009
                              Again though they both are transports first and formost, also fairly slow (17 knots), with a short enough range and a fairly large crew (and there would be the question already raised about what style of crew compartments they are), not really sure they would fit any better than anything else suggested so far.

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                              • Agreed, however it is interesting what they managed to do with the dimensions.
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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