EPV for naval service

[expat01]

From the comments here, unless we go for an Absalon, we have no idea what to replace Eithne with. If she can soldier on to 40 while the economy rebuilds, getting another OPV while working out what we want wouldn't be a bad idea. Assuming that FG both stay in government and men what they say. Both large assumptions.

[ropebag]

From the comments here, unless we go for an Absalon, we have no idea what to replace Eithne with. If she can soldier on to 40 while the economy rebuilds, getting another OPV while working out what we want wouldn't be a bad idea...

a direct relacement for Eithne would look a lot like HTMS Krabi, a modified River (batch II) class ship - 76mm OM gun, flight deck for an AW139, weight and size all much of a muchness with Eithne.

if you're thinking not a direct replacement, but replacement +, then we're talking about a much larger ship - 4,000 tons - and unless you're going to make the investment/doctrine leap that comes with the kind of weapons/surveilance and 'daughter' systems like UAV's, UUV's and helicopters that 4,000 tons ships are fitted with, you're going to have a very empty ship rolling around the waves.

personally, i think the Absalon concept is a dead end - its a fighting ship with a massive vehicle deck that fires will love, and its a transport ship whose load is minimal and which can only be delivered to fully functioning ports. utter waste of time...

either buy a fighting ship or a transport ship - they are different horses, and trying to ride both will end up with neither.

[Galloglass]

The Thais have just ordered 3 more Krabi (Rivers) at a cost of circa €70 million each Ropebag.....Nice vessels.

[Sparky42]

a direct relacement for Eithne would look a lot like HTMS Krabi, a modified River (batch II) class ship - 76mm OM gun, flight deck for an AW139, weight and size all much of a muchness with Eithne.

if you're thinking not a direct replacement, but replacement +, then we're talking about a much larger ship - 4,000 tons - and unless you're going to make the investment/doctrine leap that comes with the kind of weapons/surveilance and 'daughter' systems like UAV's, UUV's and helicopters that 4,000 tons ships are fitted with, you're going to have a very empty ship rolling around the waves.

personally, i think the Absalon concept is a dead end - its a fighting ship with a massive vehicle deck that fires will love, and its a transport ship whose load is minimal and which can only be delivered to fully functioning ports. utter waste of time...

either buy a fighting ship or a transport ship - they are different horses, and trying to ride both will end up with neither.

It's not really the only combined type vessel that are going at the moment, like the Dutch JSS which combines Underway Replenishment with Troop transport, given the value of a resupply ship, think it makes even less sense than an Absalon IMO.

[Sparky42]

The Thais have just ordered 3 more Krabi (Rivers) at a cost of circa €70 million each Ropebag.....Nice vessels.

Are they going with a hanger (conventional or folding) or just the deck? Makes the RN's Batch 2's even more stand out for their costs.

[expat01]

But we are talking about this because the navy wants an Eithne +.
Without a helo deck, what's the purpose of Eithne at all- as opposed to a P60 opv?

[hptmurphy]

HTMS Krabi,

Bit of a stretch of the imagination calling it a 'modified river class' bearing the hull shape doesn't even vaguely resemble that of the Rivers, batch 1 , 2 and three.

Basically its Eithne with a bigger gun and no hanger.....

Its a heli capable OPV, nothing special....

[na grohmiti]

As good an answer to my question I am going to get I guess.

As for Dev, you are so wrong, on so many levels.

Please give details, if only to add a measure of sanity to this discussion, it's no good telling people or Dev he is wrong, you have to spell it out.

There is no point. It's been done to death already, and he keeps going back to page 1 or the white paper, in spite of the expertise that is being offered here (not by me).
No argument being offered is even being considered as he/she reverts to quoting either a 10 year old Proposal, or a few vague lines in a policy document. That is not how discussions work, so I am merely answering him the way he has engaged in this thread.

Fixed the quote tags for you too.

[ropebag]

Basically its Eithne with a bigger gun and no hanger.....

Its a heli capable OPV, nothing special....

The requirement, as it appears to stand, is nothing special. Until someone can sort out a ' we want it to do this, that and this, under these conditions and defend itself against this and that threat' then the answers to that extremely vague requirement are going to be nothing special.

[Laners]

The requirement, as it appears to stand, is nothing special. Until someone can sort out a ' we want it to do this, that and this, under these conditions and defend itself against this and that threat' then the answers to that extremely vague requirement are going to be nothing special.

And facilities for making tea and coffee on the bridge and engine control room , and maybe one of those panini grills.

[Galloglass]

Are they going with a hanger (conventional or folding) or just the deck? Makes the RN's Batch 2's even more stand out for their costs.

Hi Sparky....Don't know about the Hangar but BAE says it's an option. Ignore the "alleged costs" of the RN Rivers (the so called "investment" was a political con job prior to the Scottish referrendum)........http://www.baesystems.com/en/article...patrol-vessel#

[The real Jack]

Relevant to the cargo/grey boat with a gun debate http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/a-ship...snt-a-frigate/

[ancientmariner]

HPT's comments . Not Operate. Just a friendly deck for intership/shore transfers, fuelling in emergency, stores etc. In high emergency most naval helos can use ships diesel in lieu of avgas fuel. It is just another thing a competent naval ship can do. WE MUST NEVER ACT UNDER AIR CORPS REQUIREMENTS AGAIN. There is a friendly deck available if they need to use it under Naval Rules. If ever the day comes for own helo, then it must be only under naval control with naval crew.

[ancientmariner]

There is a British based ship design/building group called BMT GROUP LTD. who are promoting lower cost Defence Naval packages , including a Multirole light combat warship, the BMT 110 Venator. The vessel is designed for role change depending on the task in hand. They also have designs for an MRV type vessel suitable for EEZ and worldwide duties. They also aspire to building a range of conventional submarines from 600 tonne to 4000 tonne. I'm not certain but there may be an Asian connection. In any case it provides more choices for tight budgets.

[hptmurphy]

The requirement, as it appears to stand, is nothing special. Until someone can sort out a ' we want it to do this, that and this, under these conditions and defend itself against this and that threat' then the answers to that extremely vague requirement are going to be nothing special.

tend to agree, no one seems to know exactly what the requirement is and as a result nothing other than an Eithne replacement will be purchased.