EPV for naval service

[DeV]

Something like the Point class wouldn't be an efficient use of resources (it would be one step up from e-voting machines).

It's way too big. It would be used to capacity maybe once or twice every 3-5 years (with the DF being smaller is it even likely?).

If a less well armed Absalon that can't do over the beach landings is being discounted here because it couldn't protect itself. What hope does a completely unarmed RoRo ferry have?

It can't do anything except be a RoRo ferry, you could use it as a training vessel but they would get more experience on an operational vessel.

[ropebag]

Something like the Point class wouldn't be an efficient use of resources.

It's way too big. It would be used to capacity maybe once or twice every 3-5 years

no, it would only be used by Irish land forces to full capacity every few years - ignoring the likely outcomes of the Irish-UK defence MOU - however it would be used by Ireland to promote Irish political, diplomatic and security/defence objectives every day of the week.

its an utterly vacuous idea that such a vessel could or should only be used to support missions that Irish are directly engaged in, or that where it supports other missions its not directly supporting Irish interests. all the operations EU members undertake are in Irish interests and further Irish security and defence objectives.

[na grohmiti]

Something like the Point class wouldn't be an efficient use of resources (it would be one step up from e-voting machines).

It's way too big. It would be used to capacity maybe once or twice every 3-5 years (with the DF being smaller is it even likely?).

If a less well armed Absalon that can't do over the beach landings is being discounted here because it couldn't protect itself. What hope does a completely unarmed RoRo ferry have?

It can't do anything except be a RoRo ferry, you could use it as a training vessel but they would get more experience on an operational vessel.

Djrembember a few posts back....

When I first put forward the Point Type as an option, how I also suggested it would operate civilian charter, when not operated for the DF, in the same way it does in UK service?
No?

Thought not.

Post #929

Here's an Idea.

The State purchase a vessel similar to Hurst Point, use it to ship vehicles and freight to wherever it wishes for overseas missions, while at the same time training it's merchant seamen, and providing employment for others, who were forced off irish flagged ships when cheaper workers were hired in. (Irish Ferries).
And either buy a larger OPV for OPV duties, or a low end Frigate sized vessel (with nothing too complicated, lest DEVs head might explode) to escort this vessel into hostile waters. BAM class opv or Karel Doorman class Frigate for example. Netherlands recently sold 2 of theirs (Built in early 1990s) to its Neighbour Belgium, another 2 to Portugal, 2 to Chile and there are 2 more still in service, no doubt soon to be sold when the rest of the Hollands are fully in service.
The Hurst Point type ship can send our foreign aid wherever it needs to go, or send and recover our defence forces equipment when required, and the rest of the time, can find plenty of work on the Irish sea freight routes.

[DeV]

Still be much cheaper to charter as required

UK are paying UK£30 million annually for 4 vessels for the PFI

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/476437/Point_Class_Ships.pdf

[na grohmiti]

They do take it to the Falklands every 10 weeks.

[pym]

Still be much cheaper to charter as required

You're moving the goalposts again.

[Galloglass]

no, it would only be used by Irish land forces to full capacity every few years - ignoring the likely outcomes of the Irish-UK defence MOU - however it would be used by Ireland to promote Irish political, diplomatic and security/defence objectives every day of the week.

its an utterly vacuous idea that such a vessel could or should only be used to support missions that Irish are directly engaged in, or that where it supports other missions its not directly supporting Irish interests. all the operations EU members undertake are in Irish interests and further Irish security and defence objectives.

Perhaps there should be a new thread opened for those wishing to discuss Troop Ferries? (whether "warry" or not etc) Just a thought.

[ropebag]

Perhaps there should be a new thread opened for those wishing to discuss Troop Ferries? (whether "warry" or not etc) Just a thought.

no, because EPV/MRV/whatever is an utterly shapeless concept - no one can decide if its supposed to a mini-Bay Class, a Corvette, or the bastard lovechild of the two.

we, and everyone else, should stop with the EPV/MRV/whatever and call it what it is - Next Generation Capability - until it can be decided in what direction that Cability should go: fighting, or payload/delivery.

[pym]

Perhaps there should be a new thread opened for those wishing to discuss Troop Ferries? (whether "warry" or not etc) Just a thought.

Since we've discussed everything from stretched OPV's to Ferries to LPD's (and please let's never forget the wind turbines) in this thread already, I don't see the necessity of opening another thread now.

The discussion still revolves around the NS having greater capabilities and an expanded overseas role in support of the DF - through this thread people are working out the best/most cost effective way of achieving that.

[Turkey]

Another thought, if P31 is sold/donated, it will be without weapons? are they worth recycling?

[Galloglass]

Fair enough Pym....I enjoy reading all the posts (mostly) it's just that this thread is called "EPV for Naval Service"....Prehaps it should be re-Christened "Fantasy Fleet"

Regarding " NS having greater capabilities and an expanded overseas role in support of the DF"...probably EVERYBODY would favour this. I certainly do.
Perhaps the real problem here is what is meant by "expanded overseas role" with members having different "inclinations" what does that actually mean?
Probably that they would find different solutions attractive depending on their particular inclination.
I've stated my preferences here before and where I would spend whatever money is available......I have no desire whatsoever to go wargaming with the "big boys" which is not to say that I wouldn't "like" to have minesweepers, ferries etc.....OPVs and an improved Eithne or two will do me for now.

[Sparky42]

Another thought, if P31 is sold/donated, it will be without weapons? are they worth recycling?

I presume the 20mm will be kept for stores at least even if they don't end up on whatever replaces her. As for the 57mm I don't think there's much value given it's age compared to the newer models of the mount.

[Galloglass]

Another thought, if P31 is sold/donated, it will be without weapons? are they worth recycling?

The main gun is a Bofors...We have one, so probably not. The CPVs weapons are now NS standard so they could go into any new build OPV.

[ancientmariner]

If we need major sealift for an Army deployment, then we could charter a Point vessel, as at least one of the six is available. Could be part of the MOU on Defence. The Swedes would refurbish the 57mm, if required. They might buy it back, if we want to stay with a commonality of OTO Melara.
We still need the MRV type vessel to allow us participate on available overseas duties, which we have so far avoided, because of capability shortfall.

[hptmurphy]

I presume the 20mm will be kept for stores at least even if they don't end up on whatever replaces her. As for the 57mm I don't think there's much value given it's age compared to the newer models of the mount.

Her Rh202s mountings are unique in the service. The 57mm is a big package , all the way down to the hoist into the magazine so thats not such an easy removable