EPV for naval service

[DeV]

Valmet?

Sounds familiar

[A/TEL]

Currently being touted as MRV rather than EPV within NS command circles.

[DeV]

As per the WP

[Sparky42]

This has been posted on the thread for MATS but still suggests there's still movement:

As part of a series of briefing documents published for new ministers today, a Department of Defence document said a high level inter-departmental group is preparing a report for the Government with recommendations on replacing the main government jet which went out of service in 2014.

The Ministerial Air Transport Service (MATS) is currently served by one small Air Corps learjet capable of flights to the UK and central Europe.

This is being examined as part of an overall equipment purchase programme for the Defence Forces that will see the Navy's flagship LE Eithne being replaced with a new large multi-role vessel (MRV).

[danno]

Whilst having a more capable DF is a valid aspiration, how often in recent times has the lack/unavailability of a first class frigate/destroyer to the INS put the State in jeopardy? For centuries invaders have landed here at will-Celts-Vikings -Normans-Brits etc the ironic aspect being the inability of our "Allies" France (98) and Germany (16) to do likewise to our historic loss & cost.
The institutions of State are not a prime target in the current security climate, rather the real albeit unspoken targets here are the HQs of large multinational corporations that are resident here, an attack on same would have almost the same effect as an attack on Wall St. INS "man of wars" could do little to prevent such attacks and at best could, ala other targeted nations travel to the nearest shores of those responsible and fire off VLS missiles costing many multiples of the value of the oil trucks etc being fired at in retribution. If there is any spare money for Defence/ security , IMHO same should be used for intel/police measures to meet and defeat the terrorist threat.

[spider]

Whilst having a more capable DF is a valid aspiration, how often in recent times has the lack/unavailability of a first class frigate/destroyer to the INS put the State in jeopardy? For centuries invaders have landed here at will-Celts-Vikings -Normans-Brits etc the ironic aspect being the inability of our "Allies" France (98) and Germany (16) to do likewise to our historic loss & cost.
The institutions of State are not a prime target in the current security climate, rather the real albeit unspoken targets here are the HQs of large multinational corporations that are resident here, an attack on same would have almost the same effect as an attack on Wall St. INS "man of wars" could do little to prevent such attacks and at best could, ala other targeted nations travel to the nearest shores of those responsible and fire off VLS missiles costing many multiples of the value of the oil trucks etc being fired at in retribution. If there is any spare money for Defence/ security , IMHO same should be used for intel/police measures to meet and defeat the terrorist threat.

I agree but paradoxically I believe that money needs to be found for both.

The threat from international terrorism to Western Europe has probably never been higher.

You also have a quietly resurgent republican movement internally, on both sides of the line.

http://www.u.tv/News/2016/05/18/Military-weapons-found-in-Larne-very-rare-in-NI-59184

I agree with the Mars Bar Kid...these types of weapons are very rare...I can never recall seeing military claymore mines in terrorist hands before.

This on the back of a recent series of significant arms finds in Monaghan.

Also, the Republic of Ireland has extended its Maritime EEZ to 220 million acres I believe?

With that comes responsibility to police those North Atlantic waters...and a requirement for larger, ideally better armed ships for the Irish Navy.

The worlds changing...Irelands changing...someone in government at some stage is going to have to accept that and make some decisions.

I've said it before...introduce a ring-fenced defence tax...5 euros per tax payer per month.

Price of a Starbucks latte.

I have no idea how many tax payers there are in your country...but if for example its 1 million then that's 5 million euros per month to go towards capital defence projects.

If people value their security / neutrality so much then the shouldn't mind paying it.

2016 is the year to debate it...when everyones buoyed along on a tidal wave of patriotism / parades / guiness...

[sofa]

Whilst having a more capable DF is a valid aspiration, how often in recent times has the lack/unavailability of a first class frigate/destroyer to the INS put the State in jeopardy? For centuries invaders have landed here at will-Celts-Vikings -Normans-Brits etc the ironic aspect being the inability of our "Allies" France (98) and Germany (16) to do likewise to our historic loss & cost.
The institutions of State are not a prime target in the current security climate, rather the real albeit unspoken targets here are the HQs of large multinational corporations that are resident here, an attack on same would have almost the same effect as an attack on Wall St. INS "man of wars" could do little to prevent such attacks and at best could, ala other targeted nations travel to the nearest shores of those responsible and fire off VLS missiles costing many multiples of the value of the oil trucks etc being fired at in retribution. If there is any spare money for Defence/ security , IMHO same should be used for intel/police measures to meet and defeat the terrorist threat.

As long as NATO members don't take the same view, we are grand.

[hptmurphy]

You can have the biggest navy and army you like ... when I get that money which was taken from my wage packet back in 2008 in the name of fiscal prudence

Before that

Over my dead Fcuking body.....

[sofa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm6mX2gX8mo:biggrin:

[sofa]

You can have the biggest navy and army you like ... when I get that money which was taken from my wage packet back in 2008 in the name of fiscal prudence

Before that

Over my dead Fcuking body.....

You left out 3 day week. lay offs. Defined contribution pensions. Zero hours contracts. I'll take it you are not in the private sector.

It was Benchmarking that wrecked this county along with the Banks.

[EUFighter]

Ireland has changed, it is one of the richest nations, 11th in the world in terms of GDP per capita (2nd highest in the EU). Well ahead of countries such as Germany ranked 18th, France 24th and UK at the 25th position. In fact as a nation in terms of GDP per capita we are 36% richer than the UK. So saying we can't afford to fund our military properly is just not true. We can afford it but some people in Kildare St. have to have balls and tackle the real problems the country has and not hide behind scaring people with water charges etc. The HSE is incompetent, but not just there it is all through the civil service combined with corruption. This needs to be cleared out.

The goal should be to spend 2% of GDP, that is the "insurance premium" we need to pay. And we all know that at heart we Irish do not like paying for insurance but we are glad we did when we need it. We do not know how the world will develop, 2 years ago no one thought Russia would invade the Ukraine, but they did. The world is unstable and defence no longer starts when some large army lands in Shannon! Defence capability takes time to build up, even if we were to order an SSK today, it would be 5 years before one would be delievered and another 5 or more years before it would be fully operational. But not just for subs, take any modern high end Equipment and it takes a lot time to get it operational.

We have a unique chance this year because of the year that is in it. If there is agreement that the 25 is a good goal then we need to take this out of the forum. The decision to go for 2% will not be take here, but in Kildare st. So how can we achieve that? This is the question we need to answer, as reading some research into our defence Policy it seems no one else is going to challenge the current situation. I leave you with this statement given by a high ranking DF officer to an researcher:

"We don't see the treat. We don't even gear up properly to see if there is a treat out there because if we see something we might have to deal with it, and that costs us.....there has been a positive decision to do nothing"

[danno]

What sector takes the hit for the 2%, given we are already taxed to death.

[ancientmariner]

Jeez guys can we set up a thread split for the Public sector Vs private Sector battle please? Havent seen much EPV related stuff on this thread recently...

I agree with your views. The real pity is the amount of money spent on sleek hulls since the commissioning of L.E.Deirdre in 1972 without adding a sustainable coherent defence/offence NAVAL capability at sea. We allowed the Department of Defence design the vessels by fiscal engineering and veiled threats of building ships with NO guns. We must stop squabbling and build a NAVY that can project power in a naval sense.

[DeV]

I agree with your views. The real pity is the amount of money spent on sleek hulls since the commissioning of L.E.Deirdre in 1972 without adding a sustainable coherent defence/offence NAVAL capability at sea. We allowed the Department of Defence design the vessels by fiscal engineering and veiled threats of building ships with NO guns. We must stop squabbling and build a NAVY that can project power in a naval sense.

But Irish Defence and Foreign Affairs policy doesn't involve projecting power

[ropebag]

But Irish Defence and Foreign Affairs policy doesn't involve projecting power

yes it does, overwise you wouldn't put ships with guns on them into your territorial waters or EEZ.

the proposed anti-piracy mission that got binned in favour of the Med SAR mission was a power projection mission: it involved the use, and threat of use, of armed force (power), and it would have occured more than 20 yards from the quay at Hawlbowline (projection). hence, power projection...