EPV for naval service

[DeV]

Appears they may have been following this very thread.

Superficially a blend of a Samuel Beckett and a Damen Crossover.

Brochure keen to stress capable of being built to varying structural standards, frigate to OPV.

As for the firm themselves.. http://www.stellersystems.co.uk/

In an ideal world*, we'll have two, plus an option for another two..

* Firm proves capable.
'Lost' sealift capability aggregated into a mini JSS, with an option for another one.
Two OPV/ETV/Environmental Protection Vessels also ordered, with options for another two.

No meaningful carrying capacity

[restless]

Ref the EPV/MRV, will be interesting to see if any shipyard are actually interested in building just one ship.

Any deals for OPV/MRV type ships ahve been 2-3 vessels with an option for more.

Only crowd id say that would be interested would be Appledore who we should sever ties with immediately after the P60 debacle

What debacle? apart from shaft alignment problems on p62 i cant recall hearing of any other problems

[Banner]

No meaningful carrying capacity

Isnt the Helicopter Hanger "flexible and adaptable" ie you dont have to store a helicopter in there if you dont have one?

Also I reckon the capability of moving a mechanised infantry company from the original published specs from years ago will be dropped when the new tender is finally released. Based on fiaana Fail noises about a "light Frigate" to replace Eithne and similar noises that emanated from FG I believe the new MRV will be close to the above specs.

The White Paper specifically mentions "freight carrying capacity" (not a RO RO capacity for a mech infantry group)

From the White Paper
"The LÉ Eithne, which is the current flagship and a HPV, will be replaced by a multi-role
vessel (MRV). Whilst this ship will not carry a helicopter, it will be enabled for helicopter
operations and will also have a freight carrying capacity. It is the Government’s intent
that this new vessel will provide a flexible and adaptive capability for a wide range of
maritime tasks, both at home and overseas."

Also interesting to note the the new vessel will be capable of a "wide range of tasks both at home and overseas"

this would seem to suggest a greater degree of self defence capability than seen heretofore will be included fro the get go.

[Sparky42]

Isnt the Helicopter Hanger "flexible and adaptable" ie you dont have to store a helicopter in there if you dont have one?

Also I reckon the capability of moving a mechanised infantry company from the original published specs from years ago will be dropped when the new tender is finally released. Based on fiaana Fail noises about a "light Frigate" to replace Eithne and similar noises that emanated from FG I believe the new MRV will be close to the above specs.

The White Paper specifically mentions "freight carrying capacity" (not a RO RO capacity for a mech infantry group)

From the White Paper
"The LÉ Eithne, which is the current flagship and a HPV, will be replaced by a multi-role
vessel (MRV). Whilst this ship will not carry a helicopter, it will be enabled for helicopter
operations and will also have a freight carrying capacity. It is the Government’s intent
that this new vessel will provide a flexible and adaptive capability for a wide range of
maritime tasks, both at home and overseas."

Also interesting to note the the new vessel will be capable of a "wide range of tasks both at home and overseas"

this would seem to suggest a greater degree of self defence capability than seen heretofore will be included fro the get go.

I wouldn't really bet on increased Self Defence capability being included, I mean there's no naval threat at the moment... /Sarcasm.

If the suggestion of some medical capability was included I would imagine a "flexible deck" as well as a hanger, as for what the parties have been saying, honestly I wouldn't put much faith in that at all. Doubt many could tell the difference from a large OPV, to a Light Frigate to an Amphib.

[ancientmariner]

How P31's replacement pans out, in conformity with the outline specification for a Multi role vessel, is a task for those selected to the Building Committee. Such assets are a key part of any Task Group, i.e. units without supplies and support are ineffective. Defence is part of such a ship's capability and must be a mix of CIWS , Missiles, ECM and Surveillance Systems.

[DeV]

That hanger could probably fit 2 X MOWAG at a push

Personally I'd say that they'd like a light frigate until their given the bill for it.

As you mention it doesn't say what the freight capacity should be but all the OPVs are capable of carrying 2/3 20fts so they have a freight capacity.

It should have a self defence capacity yes but when the politicans get a bill for a VLS SAM system and 2 X CIWS, with the stroke of a pen the SAMs will be gone and your down to 1 CIWS (possibly just a couple more 20mm's). We have to be realistic !

Someone mentioned a hospital ship again realism - the DF hasn't had enough MOs for at least 20 years, no spare capacity in HSE (weren't the Finns providing the med support in UNIFIL).

Something with capacity for a Mech Inf Coy provides a lot of flexibility, you could carry the Coy (or someone else's), refugees, a small containerised hospital possibly, supplies for Irish Aid, a marketing area for a diplomatic trip, support to IMERC, embark a recruit class for training etc

[ancientmariner]

Certainly go with moving an Infantry Company and ancillary tasks in keeping with spaces available, especially humanitarian and casualties. It is normal to enlist specialist trauma teams from hospitals as was done for Camp Bastion. Just make sure the ship has a designed space for processing casualties or sick eg. Xray and theater plus recovery beds etc. There must be no deviation from full self Defence otherwise tactical choice is limited in deployment and negates moving troops to a hostile area.

[Sparky42]

Certainly go with moving an Infantry Company and ancillary tasks in keeping with spaces available, especially humanitarian and casualties. It is normal to enlist specialist trauma teams from hospitals as was done for Camp Bastion. Just make sure the ship has a designed space for processing casualties or sick eg. Xray and theater plus recovery beds etc. There must be no deviation from full self Defence otherwise tactical choice is limited in deployment and negates moving troops to a hostile area.

You say that like the Politicians haven't made such calls before, the current suggested price tag for the EPV won't buy anything that matches all the suggested needs (ie flex deck, hangar, modern and complete self defence systems), and I just can't see the major will to fund something of actual spec. At best we will get a FFBNW design.

[restless]

sorry for going off thread but BZ to the NS who have had a busy few days 200km west. check out NS facebook

[Graylion]

I would build a version of the Damen Crossover and to allow for Irish sensitivities I'd go relatively inoffensive

Build 2 of these and 1 AOR/LSS like the Norwegian Ægir.

Or maybe better, build 3 Ægir 10 and rather than providing force, provide force multiplier.

26 kts CODLAD (MTU for silent, commercial for all else)

Guns
1 76mm Strales with Volcano (bow)
1 76mm Strales Sovraponte on hangar
2 40mm Bofors on the sides with 3P ammo

Missiles:
6/8 Lockhhed Exls VLS for 72/96 CAAM, CAAM-ER and Spear 3
8 NSM/JSM
4 MILAS

TT
2 x 2 533 Black Shark

Sensors:

Smart-S or Sea Giraffe 4a or TRSD-4D R/FP
Thales Kinklip
Captas-4

Hangar for 2 x 10 Mg helicopters, like Airbus E225 and drones

2 RIB, 2 LCVP or CB-90

[danno]

Ref the EPV/MRV, will be interesting to see if any shipyard are actually interested in building just one ship.

Any deals for OPV/MRV type ships ahve been 2-3 vessels with an option for more.

Only crowd id say that would be interested would be Appledore who we should sever ties with immediately after the P60 debacle

Doesn't matter as the P60's are as about as big as Appledoe can make unless done in setions to be welded as one elsewhere.

[na grohmiti]

I would build a version of the Damen Crossover and to allow for Irish sensitivities I'd go relatively inoffensive

Build 2 of these and 1 AOR/LSS like the Norwegian Ægir.

Or maybe better, build 3 Ægir 10 and rather than providing force, provide force multiplier.

26 kts CODLAD (MTU for silent, commercial for all else)

Guns
1 76mm Strales with Volcano (bow)
1 76mm Strales Sovraponte on hangar
2 40mm Bofors on the sides with 3P ammo

Missiles:
6/8 Lockhhed Exls VLS for 72/96 CAAM, CAAM-ER and Spear 3
8 NSM/JSM
4 MILAS

TT
2 x 2 533 Black Shark

Sensors:

Smart-S or Sea Giraffe 4a or TRSD-4D R/FP
Thales Kinklip
Captas-4

Hangar for 2 x 10 Mg helicopters, like Airbus E225 and drones

2 RIB, 2 LCVP or CB-90

Apart from it being impossible to mount a Strales 76 on top of the turret without adding 2 decks to it, what is the purpose of this particular vessel?

[Graylion]

Apart from it being impossible to mount a Strales 76 on top of the turret without adding 2 decks to it, what is the purpose of this particular vessel?

It is your not so light anymore frigate with good sub hunting and self defence capabilities as well as the ability to deploy men and equipment overseas. And Strales Sovraponte is a non deck piercing version. Strales itself is the CIWS version of the 76.

" To remedy this, the firm is developing what it has called the 76mm Sovraponte cannon, with the aim of cutting weight by 40 percent and fitting the loader inside the cannon's revolving section, rather than underneath it, as is currently the case.

The cannons will feature the Davide-Strales guided munition system, which has already been installed with the 76mm cannon on Italian FREMM frigates and on the Cavour carrier, and which is currently being installed on Horizon frigates. "

[client]

Doesn't matter as the P60's are as about as big as Appledoe can make unless done in setions to be welded as one elsewhere.

Not so. Back in 2007 they proposed a 125 metre EPV which was to be built across the diagonal of the dock

[na grohmiti]

It is your not so light anymore frigate with good sub hunting and self defence capabilities as well as the ability to deploy men and equipment overseas. And Strales Sovraponte is a non deck piercing version. Strales itself is the CIWS version of the 76.

" To remedy this, the firm is developing what it has called the 76mm Sovraponte cannon, with the aim of cutting weight by 40 percent and fitting the loader inside the cannon's revolving section, rather than underneath it, as is currently the case.

The cannons will feature the Davide-Strales guided munition system, which has already been installed with the 76mm cannon on Italian FREMM frigates and on the Cavour carrier, and which is currently being installed on Horizon frigates. "

For what? Are you aware of the current roles and operational needs of the naval service? Where would this fit in?
And why introduce an untested weapon to the mix?