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  • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
    From what I've read there was plenty of stupid political decisions involved in that rather than just how the RN ran things, since Ark Royal was picked for Phantomisation Eagle's usefulness was just as spares, even though her boilers were in vastly better condition. I wonder what shape the RN would have been if the money for some of the more "questionable" refits went into the '52 carriers instead of using the two WW2 era hulls.
    You need to read a book call Royal Navy Ship Development since 1945 to get a good idea why the RN took some of the steps it did.

    the biggy after WW2 was the lack of cheap steel and a huge fleet that in peace time it didn't need, a lot of it on its last legs and lastly Britain was bankrupt and all the current issues have their roots in these.
    The PoW class are an effort to put Carriers back where the natural progression should have been directly after WW2.

    Aeroplanes had evolved too fast for carriers to keep up so short term upgrades were sought. In the case of ArK Royal, it was never designed to operate the likes of phantoms and if it was even safe is open to discussion.

    All the supports were hybrids and the first true new design was the Leanders, problem being the RN became over dependant on them.

    Ship design was done by hand and various mathematical calculations and was an artform in itself just to get a conventional ship to model form so its not suprising how limited progress was.
    Enter the POW class which have all but set records from design to build to finish and thus actually frightening a lot of people.

    If they were operated by the US or even the French they could be a success, but penny pinching in the RN along with political interference will be the ruination of them service wise no matter how good they actually are.
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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    • Originally posted by morpheus View Post
      the 100Bn they wont be paying to EU could fund a decent fleet.
      Ha! We'll end up paying it, one way or another. Don't listen to them!

      Even if the Ruskies were mooring next to Parliament on the Thames, the tories still wouldn't take defence seriously. Certainly not the Navy.

      Originally posted by Rocinante View Post
      I don't know, I have the feeling 1 or maybe even both carriers will have relatively short service lives with the RN...
      Razor blades, anyone?
      Last edited by mugs; 7 September 2017, 02:51.
      Theirs not to make reply,
      Theirs not to reason why,
      Theirs but to do and die:
      Into the valley of Death
      Rode the six hundred.

      The Charge of the Light Brigade

      Comment


      • Reports that more cuts are being looked at by the MOD due to further budget issues going forward:
        Two Royal Navy ships and battlefield training for thousands of troops will be cut to save money from the defence budget, The Times has learnt.A slowdown in the


        Included is a slow down of purchases of the F 35 by 10 airframes, though the total amount remains the same

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        • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
          Reports that more cuts are being looked at by the MOD due to further budget issues going forward:
          Two Royal Navy ships and battlefield training for thousands of troops will be cut to save money from the defence budget, The Times has learnt.A slowdown in the


          Included is a slow down of purchases of the F 35 by 10 airframes, though the total amount remains the same
          I thought Lynx was out of service and replaced by Wildcat...if not its out of service fairly imminently

          The two mine hunters...again I'm sure that's old news

          Every single government department in every government in the world is constanly reviewing its spending...nothing new here...they are still spending £175Bn on new ships and equipment though.
          'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

          Comment


          • Originally posted by spider View Post
            I thought Lynx was out of service and replaced by Wildcat...if not its out of service fairly imminently

            The two mine hunters...again I'm sure that's old news

            Every single government department in every government in the world is constanly reviewing its spending...nothing new here...they are still spending £175Bn on new ships and equipment though.
            22 were upgraded and were in service it seems, so over half are being dropped.

            The Minehunters, I don't think is old news, last time it was suggested I thought the US was fairly negative about it.

            As for your "nothing new" that seems disingenuous, the MOD clearly has another black hole in it's budget (in fact the RN admitted such when saying the first 26 was going to take 9 years from start to In service), added to the fact that they are now using hulls as "training ships", I'm sure the other services have equal issues (the cutting training for example). The cuts of 2010-2015 were meant to fill the hole, now it's reported there's another 20 billion issue...

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            • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
              22 were upgraded and were in service it seems, so over half are being dropped.

              The Minehunters, I don't think is old news, last time it was suggested I thought the US was fairly negative about it.

              As for your "nothing new" that seems disingenuous, the MOD clearly has another black hole in it's budget (in fact the RN admitted such when saying the first 26 was going to take 9 years from start to In service), added to the fact that they are now using hulls as "training ships", I'm sure the other services have equal issues (the cutting training for example). The cuts of 2010-2015 were meant to fill the hole, now it's reported there's another 20 billion issue...
              The Lynx mk9a were upengined airframes for operating in Afghanistan. They were a temporary requirement whilst Wildcat was brought into service. These aircraft were going anyway...as I said I thought they were withdrawn from service already.

              SDSR 2015 talkjs about Future Force 2025...the RN are only projected to have 12 minehunters under that model...that's probably where I'd got the impression that was old news. Expect another one to get chopped in the next few years.

              Disingenuous... really...don't think so...defence may well have to find savings so scrapping two thirty year old minehunters and some helicopters they were planning to take out of service doesn't bother me. If anything I'd be more concerned about the cuts in OTX's...if what I'm hearing is correct that will cut the number of Prairie Storm exercises in Canada...I've been on a PS and there's no way of replicating that level of training in the UK.

              Then again...I do recall not that many years ago that there was talkj about Canada closing all together...that didn't happen...and hopefully we'll be back to the full scope of exercisers out there in the following training year.
              'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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              • A new HMS Belfast.

                Belfast to be at forefront of UK Nuclear deterrent with new warship.
                Belfast will be at the forefront at the forefront of the UK's nuclear deterrent.
                Defence Secretary Michael Fallon has unveiled the name of one of the Navy's new warships will be called HMS Belfast.
                The new Type 26 frigate is one of the eight of the new City Class of frigates.
                HMS Belfast will provide advanced protection for the likes of the UK's nuclear deterrent and Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers. The Defence Secretary revealed the name at Belfast shipyard Harland and Wolff, which built the Royal Navy’s last HMS Belfast, in 1939. It is now permanently moored in the Thames in London and operated by the Imperial War Museum. It will be renamed ahead of the maiden voyage of the new ship.
                The new HMS Belfast is set to enter service in the mid-2020s and, along with her fellow Type 26 frigates, will have a truly global reach, protecting the UK’s strategic interests as well as the likes of the UK’s nuclear submarines, and delivering high-end warfighting capability wherever it is needed.
                Its flexible design will also enable these capabilities to be adapted to counter future threats, whilst the ships will also benefit from the latest advances in digital technology.
                Part of the MOD’s £178bn equipment plan, the three ships being built under the first contract will safeguard 4,000 jobs in Scotland and across the UK supply chain until 2035. The Defence Secretary cut steel on HMS Glasgow, the first Type 26
                Defence Secretary Sir Michael Fallon said: "I’m hugely proud that the second name announced of our eight cutting-edge new Type 26 frigates will be HMS Belfast. She and her sister ships will form the backbone of our Navy well into the 2060s, keeping us safe by protecting the country’s nuclear deterrent and new aircraft carriers.
                “It’s apt to name this ship at the famous site which built the very first HMS Belfast. Thanks to our ambitious new National Shipbuilding Strategy, this shipyard once again has the chance to be involved in building a British warship thanks to the competition to build a new class of light frigates for our growing Royal Navy.”
                The Defence Secretary launched the ambitious National Shipbuilding Strategy earlier in the month, and as part of that laid out plans for a first batch of another new class of frigates – the Type 31e.

                A procurement process for those ships could see them shared between yards and assembled at a central hub. The warships will be built in the UK, with a price cap of no more than £250m, and will be designed to meet the needs of both the Royal Navy and the export market.
                The Defence Secretary has personally committed to visiting all of the UK’s major shipyards in the run-up to industry bringing forward its solutions for the Type 31e class, as he looks to grow the Royal Navy fleet for the first time since World War Two.
                Just before the start of the Second World War, the original HMS Belfast was commissioned, having being built at Harland and Wolff shipyard. She went on to support the Battle of North Cape, the Normandy landings and the Korean War.*
                The original ship now belongs to Imperial War Museums and is permanently docked in London. Before the new HMS Belfast commissions, the original HMS Belfast will be renamed ‘HMS Belfast 1938’, the year the ship was launched.
                Admiral Sir Philip Jones, First Sea Lord and Chief of Naval Staff, said: “The City class theme has been chosen for the Type 26 frigates in order to reaffirm the bond between the Nation and it’s Navy. We want to honour some of the great centres of industry and commerce in all parts of the United Kingdom, and few cities have such a rich maritime heritage as Belfast.
                “The previous HMS Belfast (1938) is one of the most famous ships of the twentieth century, serving at the Battle of North Cape, in the Arctic campaign and at the Normandy landings, and later with the United Nations forces sent to Korea. It is wonderful that she survives today as a museum, but the Royal Navy believes that such a distinguished fighting name deserves to take its place once more in our operational fleet.
                "A world leader in anti-submarine warfare, the new HMS Belfast will work with our allies in NATO and around the world to preserve the freedom and security that her predecessor fought so hard to secure.”
                Belfast Telegraph Digital
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                • Tail wagging the dog ...

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                  • Originally posted by Orion View Post
                    Tail wagging the dog ...
                    Possibly one of the rednecks demands
                    Last edited by sofa; 28 September 2017, 00:41.

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                    • Originally posted by sofa View Post
                      Possibly one of the rednecks demands
                      I'd say it's more "look at the Union", I'd bet London and Cardiff are going to be named before long as well.

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                      • Originally posted by sofa View Post
                        Possibly one of the rednecks demands
                        What a really ignorant thing to say.

                        Do you have any proof of this or are you just being an arse?
                        'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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                        • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                          I'd say it's more "look at the Union", I'd bet London and Cardiff are going to be named before long as well.
                          You may be right but Glasgow isn't a seat of devolved government in the UK ....

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                          • A brutal assessment of the Royal Navy first published in the Official Journal of the Navy League of Australia and republished in a UK Defence Blog.



                            "Unfortunately, renaming the Type 26 the ‘global combat ship’ does not actually make it any more ‘global’ or combat-effective than either its Type 23 predecessors or its foreign competitors. The GCS is merely the latest conservative and expensive frigate design to come down the BAE- Royal Navy turnpike, one that is as likely to be an export flop as every major British warship design has been since the Leander class frigates of the 1970s."

                            Ouch...

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                            • Ah to be fair leander was bought by the dutch...And the Kiwis found that one of them makes an excellent diving reef..
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                              • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                                Ah to be fair leander was bought by the dutch...And the Kiwis found that one of them makes an excellent diving reef..
                                The Indians and the Aussies built them as well. The last three Leanders in RNZN service were sunk as dive reefs. Good ships in their day.

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