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Navy aircraft UK carrier will be sold after three years, no jets.

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  • Originally posted by morpheus View Post
    Lead the way.

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    • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
      I didn't think they were ever going to be operational at the same time? Thought the plan was always 1 in and 1 out?
      Again depends on the state of readiness required, either will always have to be 'functional ' to a degree in the vent of either or both being required. This takes money and man power.

      Can't just turn the key in lock, walk away and expect it to work on demand. So its not going to be cheap or easy
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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      • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
        Again depends on the state of readiness required, either will always have to be 'functional ' to a degree in the vent of either or both being required. This takes money and man power.

        Can't just turn the key in lock, walk away and expect it to work on demand. So its not going to be cheap or easy
        I get that, I thought the plan was for one to either be in refit or in extended readiness, with the budget and manpower issues the RN has (and will have with the SSBN's spinning up), is it realistic to think short of the operational one being heavily damaged that the "spare" would be brought online? Short of a significant change in spending I can't see both operational at the same time, wouldn't that mean issues for the air group, escorts, RFA if they were operating independently?

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        • the 100Bn they wont be paying to EU could fund a decent fleet.
          "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
          "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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          • Originally posted by morpheus View Post
            the 100Bn they wont be paying to EU could fund a decent fleet.
            Did it say that on the side of a bus?

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            • They are so short of manpower, especially technical manpower, for all of their fleet, especially submarines, that it's a wonder they have enough ships at seas at all. They have found out the hard way, that techs (regardless of rank) like to get paid well and treated well and techs can get that ashore for less graft, so why would they go to sea?

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              • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                Did it say that on the side of a bus?
                Tangental, but sadly, the remoaners keep using every opportunity to shout "where has that £350 million you promised gone?", yet they hinder the speedy exit of the UK from the EU at every chance. Written on the side of a bus or not, while the UK is still in the EU, that money cannot appear.

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                • Originally posted by barrybadrinah View Post
                  Tangental, but sadly, the remoaners keep using every opportunity to shout "where has that £350 million you promised gone?", yet they hinder the speedy exit of the UK from the EU at every chance. Written on the side of a bus or not, while the UK is still in the EU, that money cannot appear.
                  Some comments on the financial side of Brexit ....

                  I think you will find that actual UK to EU annual contribution is around £8.5bn per year (2016 figures) having taken into account the 'Thatcher' rebate and EU payments direct into the UK

                  The quoted sum on the famous bus was based on an unsupported estimate of £55m per day

                  Also the informative bus (rather unfairly I think) didn't tell us that this sum was a gross amount with no consideration of discounts/rebates and subsidies

                  The hoped for UK financial benefits from leaving the EU were at the very least oversold

                  In 2018 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at about £9 billion.


                  Good to see that the spirit of Hartlepool Man is alive and well in one who is not from Hartlepool ...

                  for another thread I think
                  Last edited by Orion; 18 August 2017, 20:33.

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                  • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                    I get that, I thought the plan was for one to either be in refit or in extended readiness, with the budget and manpower issues the RN has (and will have with the SSBN's spinning up), is it realistic to think short of the operational one being heavily damaged that the "spare" would be brought online? Short of a significant change in spending I can't see both operational at the same time, wouldn't that mean issues for the air group, escorts, RFA if they were operating independently?
                    I think the classic examples is the RN and its LPDs of Old , Intrepid and Fearless,

                    Build two, run the shite out of one and then reactivate the other when required, the down side the second unit doesn't get all the upgrades the primary one does and ends up all but useless in time of emergency.

                    Intrepid ended up as a source of spares for Fearless and went to the scrapyard before Fearless, albeit months, but with far less miles on the clock so to speak.

                    There isn't an ideal solution, unless you use both to full capacity unless in re fit, its a waste of money building them initially.

                    Not saying anything about the capabilities or any other aspect of the builds, indeed fine looking vessels but just born of the wrong time.
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                    • I don't know, I have the feeling 1 or maybe even both carriers will have relatively short service lives with the RN...

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                      • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                        I think the classic examples is the RN and its LPDs of Old , Intrepid and Fearless,

                        Build two, run the shite out of one and then reactivate the other when required, the down side the second unit doesn't get all the upgrades the primary one does and ends up all but useless in time of emergency.

                        Intrepid ended up as a source of spares for Fearless and went to the scrapyard before Fearless, albeit months, but with far less miles on the clock so to speak.

                        There isn't an ideal solution, unless you use both to full capacity unless in re fit, its a waste of money building them initially.

                        Not saying anything about the capabilities or any other aspect of the builds, indeed fine looking vessels but just born of the wrong time.
                        They also did it with the last big flat-tops they had, Ark Royal and Eagle. Even there they used Eagle for spares even if a lot of people though she was the better ship!

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                        • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                          They also did it with the last big flat-tops they had, Ark Royal and Eagle. Even there they used Eagle for spares even if a lot of people though she was the better ship!
                          Problem with these was they were never designed for what they were actually tasked with doing. They were essentially to small and could never operate the array of aircraft they should have been able to operate. Again trying to do it on the cheap reduced the service lives.

                          But again at least they are being built and the debate about should they be built is over. But just because you have two carriers doesn't make you a super power.

                          Will the operational costs impact on future operations that they should have been capable of doing?
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                            They also did it with the last big flat-tops they had, Ark Royal and Eagle. Even there they used Eagle for spares even if a lot of people though she was the better ship!
                            From what I've read there was plenty of stupid political decisions involved in that rather than just how the RN ran things, since Ark Royal was picked for Phantomisation Eagle's usefulness was just as spares, even though her boilers were in vastly better condition. I wonder what shape the RN would have been if the money for some of the more "questionable" refits went into the '52 carriers instead of using the two WW2 era hulls.

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                            • Who remembers CVA01?
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                              • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                                Who remembers CVA01?
                                Seem to remember some within the admiralty were glad it got cancelled in the end given how compromised the design had become, that's why I was suggesting the '52 design instead.

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