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  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
    Not sure if 100% clear yet

    AEW&C wise AFAIK there is no proposal beyond Crowsnest
    Seemingly it is to be a new version of same;

    Minister for Defence Procurement Harriett Baldwin has today announced a £269 million deal for a new cutting-edge helicopter-borne surveillance system designed to protect Royal Navy ships, including the new Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers.

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    • Originally posted by spider View Post
      They are deepening Portsmouth to accomodate them...

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-17012417
      These works are now complete;

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      • Originally posted by DeV View Post
        All the pilots being embarked will need to be carrier qualified (which limits your pool of available aircrew, it's unlikely they will all be (even if simpler than cats & traps).
        'carrier qualification' will be part of the OCU programme for F-35 aircrew. based on current, live experience with F-35B operating from USN platforms smaller than the QE's, carrier qualification on F-35B will be easier than it was on Harriers, and you'll recall from 1982 that the Harrier carrier qualification was 'fly to Portsmouth and land on the big grey thing...'

        Originally posted by DeV View Post
        A fairly significant portion of your aircrew are going to be tied up in providing air defence to the carrier (which means obviously they need to be AD combat ready (unclear if all a/c will have AD capabilities and all aircrew will be trained to that status).
        AD is part of the OCU syllabus for all UK F-35B aircrew. all UK F-35B will be (as in are now, and every one coming off the production line will also be..) fittED for and with AIM-120C and AIM-132, and the integration for Meteor BVRAAM is funded. all F-35B radar - which is an upgrade of the radar used by the F-22 - and other avionics systems are the same.

        Originally posted by DeV View Post
        All in all, the RN will get its biggest ever vessels in other to carry aircraft but the combined RAF & FAA will not be able to deploy enough a/c (or aircrew) to provide more than a token carrier strike capability against near peer threats. Especially not when the same a/c and aircrew will also be required for land based ops.
        the Force Element @ Readiness for UK F-35 is projected at around 80 airframes. you can fit about 40 F-35B on a QE carrier, and the assumption is that while we may be able to surge both in an emergency, we can only be certain of one being available - so upto 40 on the carrier, and 40 for land based operations together with around 100 Typhoon FGR4.

        which 'near peer' adversary do you have in mind?

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        • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
          'carrier qualification' will be part of the OCU programme for F-35 aircrew. based on current, live experience with F-35B operating from USN platforms smaller than the QE's, carrier qualification on F-35B will be easier than it was on Harriers, and you'll recall from 1982 that the Harrier carrier qualification was 'fly to Portsmouth and land on the big grey thing...'



          AD is part of the OCU syllabus for all UK F-35B aircrew. all UK F-35B will be (as in are now, and every one coming off the production line will also be..) fittED for and with AIM-120C and AIM-132, and the integration for Meteor BVRAAM is funded. all F-35B radar - which is an upgrade of the radar used by the F-22 - and other avionics systems are the same.



          the Force Element @ Readiness for UK F-35 is projected at around 80 airframes. you can fit about 40 F-35B on a QE carrier, and the assumption is that while we may be able to surge both in an emergency, we can only be certain of one being available - so upto 40 on the carrier, and 40 for land based operations together with around 100 Typhoon FGR4.
          To have all crews trained (and current) in all roles (and all aircraft capable of all roles) will be new.

          Generally there are differences in aircraft (eg Tornado and Typhoon), where different versions, tranches and squadrons specialise.

          If true that can only be a good thing.



          which 'near peer' adversary do you have in mind?
          Who knows

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          • The days of specialised single role Fighter aircraft ended around the time of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. RAF Jaguar strike aircraft were retro fitted with sidewinder anti aircraft missiles, USN F14 interceptors were fitted with pods on the belly to carry "dumb" bombs, as there was an absolute absence of aircraft for them to shoot down. The move is towards a wide variety of weapons being carried on the same aircraft, depending on its role for the day.
            Keep in mind the F35B is intended to replace the USMC F/A18.
            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
              To have all crews trained (and current) in all roles (and all aircraft capable of all roles) will be new.
              no it won't, the Typhoon force is all multi-role, the old Phantom force, both RAF and FAA, was multi-role, the FAA FA2 Harrier and JF Harrier GR9's were all multi-role.

              Originally posted by DeV View Post
              Generally there are differences in aircraft (eg Tornado and Typhoon), where different versions, tranches and squadrons specialise.
              amazingly, if you have an aircraft that is a fighter/intercepter (like Tornado F3) which has pretty limited off-role capabilities, and that has other aircraft (Tornado GR4) that do the off-role jobs far better, then there won't be much multi-rolling going on. however when you have a multi-role aircraft that doesn't have other aircraft to do other jobs (F-35), then it will do all the jobs as and when they come along. F-35 sqns won't specialise in strike or AD because bere is no way of knowing what kind of jobs will crop up, they will just do both.

              Originally posted by DeV View Post
              Who knows
              states and military capability don't just appear out of thin air. there is one country on earth that could handle a CVF with 40 F-35 and its escorts, and two or three countries that could not handle them, but who's nuclear capabilities mean that a conventional conflict with them would be fraught with dangers. the rest?

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              • Do a bit of research on the various on the various tranches and blocks of Typhoon and come back.

                The initial RAF Typhoons had zero air to ground capability (it was done urgently for Afghanistan after around 5 years in service) they were then upgraded to have some and then upgraded to full multi role.

                In the 14 years or so since delivery the RAF has operated 14 different tranches and blocks of Typhoon

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                • Yes. But single type doing many roles instead of a single role aircraft which was once the norm. Take a look at the R.A.F or FAA of 20 years ago to see what I mean. Many aircraft replaced by a single type. The usn is slowly moving in the same direction. Where once you had F14 , A6, EA6, F18, P3 you now find just F18 or EF18.
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                  • More potential problems with "world class" carrier;

                    ROYAL Navy chiefs face a monster repair bill after a new £3billion aircraft carrier broke out in mystery blisters. Top brass ordered tests on the HMS Queen Elizabeth’s lum­py landing surface amid f…

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                    • Well if its in the Scottish Sun it must be all DOOM and GLOOM!! lol!

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                      • The negative press continues;

                        The Navy's delayed new aircraft carrier is facing a morale crisis, it has been claimed, as sailors 'abandon ship' because they are bored.

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                        • Originally posted by danno View Post
                          While I can understand so degree of crew issues, they are working up the largest warship the RN has ever had, did they think it was going to be quick or easy?

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                          • This is also up, not sure if it is a reply to the other post or visa versa. Trials are rumoured to be starting soon.

                            The Ship’s Company of HMS Queen Elizabeth has now taken up residence on board the nation's new supercarrier and future flagship.

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                            • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                              While I can understand so degree of crew issues, they are working up the largest warship the RN has ever had, did they think it was going to be quick or easy?
                              Having seen how lax their military training has become, on the recent TV documentaries, this isn't one bit surprising. Their mates are out every weekend on the beer from their jobs at McD and Nandos, with twice the money these crew are on. The Older age profile the RN are also recruiting mean people are less likely to tolerate poor work conditions for long.
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                              • The good news stories continue;



                                Trials rumoured for next week;

                                Over the next week, HMS Queen Elizabeth will be manned and ready as her crew operate the ship 24-hours a day as though she's at sea, except for one detail: the carrier will not leave the pier at Rosyth.
                                Last edited by danno; 13 June 2017, 23:39.

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