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Navy aircraft UK carrier will be sold after three years, no jets.

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Goldie fish
    I think the Invasion of iraq will be seen as the last great tank battle.
    Until the next one comes along- remember Yom Kippur and particularly the batlle for the Golan Heights -72 IASRAELI tanks versus 500 plus Syrian armoured vehicles icluding 200+ tanks


    Originally posted by Goldie fish
    Why the troublesome, expensive, and inflexible? submarines were spared though is even harder to understand.
    Far more flexabilty in the delivery of the ultimate sanction than surface based assests I would think

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Pod View Post
      I believe the the Cannucks have a reinforced squadron (?around 20)
      That's correct, all Leo 2A6s. We may still have some Leo C2 in theater, not sure.
      "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

      Never give up!!"

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Pod View Post
        I believe the the Cannucks have a reinforced squadron (?around 20)
        Originally posted by Jungle View Post
        That's correct, all Leo 2A6s. We may still have some Leo C2 in theater, not sure.
        we will still have over 240 Challenger 2's to play with so these cuts have no bearing on how we operate MBT's in Afghanistan because at the moment it's mostly the Danish (and perhaps some Canadians) providing the MBT support for British Battle-groups - a decision taken by the Labour government that still remains.
        RGJ

        ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

        The Rifles

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        • #49
          Ark Royal now for sale on ebay.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
            Hi there,
            Gas turbines will give you as much steam energy as you need.After all, how do you think the Ringsends of the world work? Instead of filling a furnace with coal,to heat water, to make steam to drive a steam turbine, you attach a jet engine, run it on diesel or gas or whatever can be vapourised and let it do the heavy lifting. Gas turbines on ships drive the props thru a reduction gearbox or else make steam and let a steam turbine drive the props thru the gearbox. Exhaust temps would be higher than 500 deg C, with around 750 C being typical.Gas turbines are also combined with diesels (CODAG) to allow for fast or slow speed work.
            regards
            GttC
            Thanks for that GttC, I have operated several marine steam plants so I have a good idea how they work including the Combined power plants at Ringsend and Northwall.
            Every powerplant tries to be as efficient as possible by extracting as much heat energy as is practical, but the problem for naval vessels, as distinct from Merchant vessels or land based generating stations is that they do not operate for long periods at full power. Our own Naval ships have no heat recovery systems, as far as I know no Naval Gas turbine powered vessels generate steam using their exhaust, if they recover any heat it would go to supplement their Hotel services .
            The big advantage VSTOL Carriers have is that they do not need steam at high pressures and in large quantities therefore they can be powered by gas turbines and are not so expensive that only the US and France can afford, or want. If the RN modify one or both of the new carriers to CATOBAR ships at this stage the changes and expense would be massive, no matter how much provision they will claim to have made. To get a light switch moved when a ship is being built is a big deal that causes the Builders to tear their hair out and has the Accountants reaching for their calculators to add more naughts.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Stoker View Post
              If the RN modify one or both of the new carriers to CATOBAR ships at this stage the changes and expense would be massive, no matter how much provision they will claim to have made.
              The new carriers have been designed from the start to make it possible to install electromagnetic catapults if required. No need to worry about steam generation, all they'll need is electricity.

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              • #52
                Watched this week on the BBC last night, Michael Portillo was on with Alistair Darling, Portillo raised the issue of the carriers, pointing out that they were in his words white elephants, that were of no real use in modern warfare.

                Portillo also made the point that they were built in Gordon Brown's home town employing Brown's voters, a point followed up by the times today

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                • #53
                  Hi Stoker,
                  Fair point but if you already know the answer, why ask the question? The largest one I worked on was a Frame 5.The rest, including marine duty engines, were up to 15000 shp.
                  regards
                  GttC

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Goldie fish
                    Portillo is, unusually, talking out of his arse.

                    The scots are only one of the shipbuilders building the carriers. Appledore are building modules for it, from start to finish, as are Cammel Laird, in Birkinhead. Modules are also being built in Portsmouth.

                    If he thinks flat tops are of no use to modern warfare, why are China so keen to get one? Why are the US investing in more? Why is every major power doing its damndest to stay in or enter the carrier game?
                    For China prestige, and the US are questioning as to whether they need so many of them . Portillo pointed out that they are vulnerable to missiles, and deploying one will need escorts, which have been gutted to build them

                    As with all defence spending there is an element of parish pump politics, building carriers keeps lots of people employed including those in Gordon Brown's hometown, but i think portillo made the point that the money could have been better spent elsewhere.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Goldie fish
                      why are China so keen to get one?
                      China has one. Its the sister ship to the Admiral Kuznetsov, Varyag.



                      View Larger Map

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Goldie fish
                        Vince is heading for the breakers.
                        A sad, disgraceful decision.

                        The aircraft carrier HMS Invincible has left Portsmouth for the last time before it is broken up at a Turkish scrapyard.




                        shame the Fleet air Arm museum couldn't have been moved to it,like the intrepid
                        Experience the legendary aircraft carrier Intrepid, the first space shuttle Enterprise, and other pieces of history at the Intrepid Museum.


                        park it up alongside HMS Belfast in London!

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Goldie fish
                          Vince is heading for the breakers.
                          A sad, disgraceful decision.
                          i agree Goldie - i'd rather see the back of tens of thousand civvies within the MoD so we could keep a carrier but it was not to be.
                          RGJ

                          ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                          The Rifles

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                          • #58
                            excellent videos watched them this morning.

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                            • #59
                              You know, it makes you wonder how the American yards managed to build their Essex class carriers without the benefit of computers, in WW II?
                              regards
                              GttC

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                              • #60
                                Didn't matter what size H&W's crane is: Belfast is not in Gordon Brown's constituency.

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