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  1. #201
    4 Star General andy's Avatar
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    I heard about all the negativity about the F35 but when you read it on the above link and the price tag that goes with it I can't believe it.

    The Russians seem to be very up to date with their missiles, its probably time to go back to restart the F22 production line

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy View Post
    I heard about all the negativity about the F35 but when you read it on the above link and the price tag that goes with it I can't believe it.

    The Russians seem to be very up to date with their missiles, its probably time to go back to restart the F22 production line
    I highly doubt that it's economically feasible to restart the F 22 line, technology has already moved on past it (for example the Stealth coatings, or the computer systems), by the time it would be back up and running and producing either a) the 35 issues would be resolved or b) the USAF would already be heading deep into the 6th gen development. Remember they have to find the money for the new Bomber, as well as the tanker program, while at the same time the Defence budget has to handle the SSBN's...

  3. #203
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    Ralistically, the F22 is an aircraft with no rival. That makes it pointless. Meanwhile the F18 still has plenty of life in it. Worldwide, 2000s tech aircraft are getting software upgrades to see them until the next conflict.
    There has been no equal matched air combat since the Arab Israeli war, or maybe the Falklands.
    The Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, and the Allied move agains Iraq that followed, saw the Eastern block export aircraft quickly wiped out on the ground. The Need for stealth bombers was identified, but the usefulness of stealth fighters has never really been proven. Low observability designs are cheaper and have better aerodynamic qualities. The F22 can't not fly by wire. It needs the computer to keep it fying.
    Its only possible rivals are an unknown quantity, and are unlikely to face it in combat. The Chengdu J20 may only be a bomber, in any event it is comparable to the Rafale or Gripen on an aerodynamic level, and is far cheaper to produce than the F22.
    The Sukhoi T50 or PAK FA are still only at prototype stage.
    The F22 also seems to have missed the secret of an aircraft success. Foreign sales. It needs to be so good that your allies want to buy versions of it. The refusal to sell even a lower spec version of the aircraft to foreign allies dooms the production.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  4. #204
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    This must be the saddest video ever.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  5. #205
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Wishful thinking?
    Just visiting

  6. #206
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    Another damning display of the current state of the Royal Navy as revealed by this article.
    http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/ongo...rface-escorts/


    A quick analysis shows that 6 of the RN’s 19 escorts are at sea or fully operational. A further 6 are either on trials, training or in short maintenance periods. Activity may be slightly curtailed generally in the summer leave period, as the RN does its best to prioritise the needs of personnel and their families. 4 are in major refit and 3 are non-operational, pending refit or due to lack of personnel. The confining of HMS Daring to harbour is especially disappointing as the Type*45s are badly needed and it had been hoped this expediency applied to HMS Dauntless would be just a temporary measure
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  8. #207
    Amadan Orion's Avatar
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  9. #208
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Not sure why this is was live on Sky News today

  10. #209
    C/S EUFighter's Avatar
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    Do they not realise that the drone was the F35 replacement?

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  12. #210
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    To me, her arrival is not that important, the real question is when will she leave operationally?
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  13. #211
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    To me, her arrival is not that important, the real question is when will she leave operationally?
    She isn't even commissioned yet

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  15. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    To me, her arrival is not that important, the real question is when will she leave operationally?
    the first F-35 will land on QE next year (IIRC), there will then be a process of increasing the number of F-35's and doing the work ups - initial operational capability is pencilled in for 2020/1 with full operation capability in 2022/3. PoW will be about 2 years behind.

    she's doing her sea trials, in the 100 years that the RN has been operating carriers - and the RN have commissioned nearly 80 carriers in that time - not one has taken its fixed wing aircraft on their sea trials...

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  17. #213
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    Because sea trials are the province of the sailor types, who jealously guard that privilege and they don't want to have to listen to aeroplane drivers, even if they are "own brand" FAA types, who are regarded with suspicion by any proper RN-concieved sailor. Bad enough having to listen to Johnnies from Whitehall or shabby Dockyard types....bah, humbug, pass the Gin...

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  19. #214
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    To me, her arrival is not that important, the real question is when will she leave operationally?
    The fact it has got this far is a big plus, its built, its mobile, they now have to do something with it !

    It won't stand up to any public scruitiny if its not operational in an acceptable period of time.

    Its being well stage managed. Will probably due its first refit by the time POW is good to go and as a result and the facilities required , its unlikely that both will serve along side each other operationally for a long time to come.
    Just visiting

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  21. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    The fact it has got this far is a big plus, its built, its mobile, they now have to do something with it !

    It won't stand up to any public scruitiny if its not operational in an acceptable period of time.

    Its being well stage managed. Will probably due its first refit by the time POW is good to go and as a result and the facilities required , its unlikely that both will serve along side each other operationally for a long time to come.
    I didn't think they were ever going to be operational at the same time? Thought the plan was always 1 in and 1 out?

  22. #216
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    I didn't think they were ever going to be operational at the same time? Thought the plan was always 1 in and 1 out?
    Even if not by design

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/hms-...anning-issues/

  23. #217
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    the first F-35 will land on QE next year (IIRC), there will then be a process of increasing the number of F-35's and doing the work ups - initial operational capability is pencilled in for 2020/1 with full operation capability in 2022/3. PoW will be about 2 years behind.

    she's doing her sea trials, in the 100 years that the RN has been operating carriers - and the RN have commissioned nearly 80 carriers in that time - not one has taken its fixed wing aircraft on their sea trials...
    So she is doing sea trials to test all her capabilities (apart from the primary one)?

    Should

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  25. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    So she is doing sea trials to test all her capabilities (apart from the primary one)?

    Should
    Well considering she's the largest hull the RN has ever operated and the gap with the retirement of the I's I can understand why shakedown and training is going to take some time anyway.

  26. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    So she is doing sea trials to test all her capabilities (apart from the primary one)?...
    she's doing sea trials to see if she's, err... ready to go to sea.

    during her sea trials an issue was identified with one of her prop shafts - it was then fixed - this is what sea trials are for...

    i'm not quite sure what a load of ex-Harrier pilots could have added to that discussion.

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  28. #220
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    she's doing sea trials to see if she's, err... ready to go to sea.

    during her sea trials an issue was identified with one of her prop shafts - it was then fixed - this is what sea trials are for...

    i'm not quite sure what a load of ex-Harrier pilots could have added to that discussion.
    So they will accept it at risk that there could be potentially something preventing flight ops with F35

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  30. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    So they will accept it at risk that there could be potentially something preventing flight ops with F35
    No, they are learning to sail, and then fight something very big and very complicated, not unreasonably they want to get the most basic stuff stowed away before moving on to the really complex, really dangerous stuff.

    Wise men know that difficult stuff is, well, difficult. Others however appear to have cat shit for brains...

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  32. #222
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Dev sea trials have nothing to do with testing the operation of it's air wing, all that will be tested in carrier qualification trials or whatever it's called!
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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  34. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    No, they are learning to sail, and then fight something very big and very complicated, not unreasonably they want to get the most basic stuff stowed away before moving on to the really complex, really dangerous stuff.

    Wise men know that difficult stuff is, well, difficult. Others however appear to have cat shit for brains...
    This, the QE's are massive compared to anything the RN has had before, so it's going to take time to work up a first of class.

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  36. #224
    Amadan Orion's Avatar
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    Nice piece here from the RN

    http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and...ueen-elizabeth

    Another piece from another source

    http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/hms-...t-week-at-sea/

    S$lt for brains was a well used phrase in North East (Engand) dockyards where many RN ships were built

    S$lt for ... if you are out there the above links are worth a read ....

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  38. #225
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Pity we dont have anything like this

    http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/why-we-need-the-navy/

    in ireland
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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