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Thread: Stinger

  1. #26
    jang-a-lang turbocalves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    Hi Turbo,
    I'd rather any Irish UN mission went overseas with the easily loaded and carried stuff to hand, just in case, rather than wait for an air attack and try and get it shipped out, in a hurry, afterwards. There's no shortage of cheap yet deadly Russian/Chinese/Eastern European aircraft and crews to fly, fix and arm them in Africa. Even if all they did was to leave one or two Mowags behind and bring a Bofors instead, it would make a difference. Imagine if the lowlifes in Chad had had access to a Mig or two? It's be a far different story for the Irish then.
    regards
    GttC
    I agree, troops goin overseas should be tooled up the ying! Even if that means bringing Bofors/RBS's/Stingers/Bren Guns......
    But there has been very little use/need for AD assets on Irish peacekeeping missions. Thus AD stuff seems to be left at home. And seeing as were goin the Leb again I doubt there will be a need for AD esp seeing as its the yids who have the airpower out that neck of the woods

    The last time i recall there being an air threat (i may be wrong on this) on an overseas mission was in the congo, this set a precedent early on yet nothing was done about it. And I cant see it changing
    But there's no danger
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  2. #27
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    I'd imagine if the UN had brought a few L60s with the Irish contingent, Mr Zumbach in his Fouga might have had other ideas.
    regards
    GttC

  3. #28
    Captain Jetjock's Avatar
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    Turbo,

    While there wasn't a definitive threat on recent missions, neither was there definitive air cover.

    Given the proximity of Sudan to the Irish AO in Chad, and it being the place from where rebel advances were supported and launched it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that there could have been Sudanese Mig-29's or Hinds popping up over the border.

    One thing sure to make a Hind pilot think twice about harassing a patrol would be the threat of being countered with a Stinger.

  4. #29
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    Hi there,
    I'm presuming the presence of old French Mirages (flown by people who would shoot in a heartbeat) was regarded as sufficient, in the event of a Sudanese MiG popping up.
    regards
    GttC

  5. #30
    My tank is bigger... California Tanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul g View Post
    As for air defence correct me if I'm worng, but haven't the US got rid of their air defence units at brigade and Division level, leaving only patriots at corps level?
    We do have the advantage of a fairly competent air force to deal with any overhead issues. SLAMRAAM was only cancelled yesterday, and as far as I know, there are still plenty of Avengers mucking around.

    NTM
    Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

  6. #31
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbocalves View Post
    The last time i recall there being an air threat (i may be wrong on this) on an overseas mission was in the congo, this set a precedent early on yet nothing was done about it. And I cant see it changing
    I read somewhere that Bofors were deployed with ONUC (not sure if they were Irish or not).

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by California Tanker View Post
    We do have the advantage of a fairly competent air force to deal with any overhead issues. SLAMRAAM was only cancelled yesterday, and as far as I know, there are still plenty of Avengers mucking around.

    NTM
    But the thing is that we'll serve overseas in future in conjunction with western forces in the future, as in chad and soon the lebanon, so there will be air support from a competent western airforce ( reflected in aircorps staff now deploying with army units to co-ordinate air support).
    .

    In the present climate, I rather resources were spent on technology for route clearance and C-IED equipment.
    Last edited by paul g; 13th January 2011 at 12:09.

  8. #33
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul g View Post
    But the thing is that we'll serve overseas in future in conjunction with western forces in the future, as in chad and soon the lebanon, so there will be air support from a competent western airforce ( reflected in aircorps staff now deploying with army units to co-ordinate air support).
    .

    In the present climate, I rather resources were spent on technology for route clearance and C-IED equipment.
    i'd say that's a pretty good idea embedding your Air Corps troops with the Army, we do it the other way around - we train soldiers to work with the RAF but i'd actually say what you are doing is better. (see - i do give credit where credit is due!)

    i guess that is the advantage of having individuals already trained as soldiers within the Air Corps who can conduct such operations.

    as for route clearance - yes heavy investment is needed in this area but you are already on your way with the RG32.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul g View Post
    But the thing is that we'll serve overseas in future in conjunction with western forces in the future, as in chad and soon the lebanon, so there will be air support from a competent western airforce ( reflected in aircorps staff now deploying with army units to co-ordinate air support).
    .

    In the present climate, I rather resources were spent on technology for route clearance and C-IED equipment.
    We already have C-IED equipment.

    It's called Privates

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hello Alaska View Post
    We already have C-IED equipment.

    It's called Privates
    Nice one.

    Would be nice to have something like the husky and buffalo to complement them though.
    Last edited by paul g; 13th January 2011 at 21:36.

  11. #36
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul g View Post
    But you also have those husky's and buffaloes.
    what?
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  12. #37
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    what?
    Mastiffs and whatever gay name the mod gave the other.
    Last edited by The real Jack; 13th January 2011 at 21:10.
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  13. #38
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The real Jack View Post
    Mastiffs and whatever gay name the mod gave the other.
    you sound a bit too homophobic to me mate and need to chillax

    and who was talking about British vehicles?

    Paul G said that to Hello Alsaka who is in the Irish DF.

    anyhow, if you do come and join us Real Jack - one of those 'gay name' vehicles you mention like Mastiff, Ridgeback, Foxhound, Husky, Panther, Wolfhound, Warthog or even the Jackal or Coyote may save your life some day so i wouldn't knock it.

    we do have Buffalo too but i doub't you will be ever in one of these:



    and keeping on topic, didn't the SAS take out a chopper full of Argentine SF with a Stinger in the Falklands? i've been hearing that story ever since i went down there.
    Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 13th January 2011 at 21:47.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  14. #39
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Moved to A&AR. Carry on !
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  15. #40
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    and keeping on topic, didn't the SAS take out a chopper full of Argentine SF with a Stinger in the Falklands? i've been hearing that story ever since i went down there.
    The Stinger was being carried on the SAS raid of Darwin (prior to 2 Para attacking Goose Green), it shot down a Pucara on the route march back. As far as I remember from Max Hasting's book there were no other shoot downs by Stinger.

  16. #41
    Captain Jetjock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    The Stinger was being carried on the SAS raid of Darwin (prior to 2 Para attacking Goose Green), it shot down a Pucara on the route march back. As far as I remember from Max Hasting's book there were no other shoot downs by Stinger.
    There were two Stinger shoot downs in the Falklands. The second was an Argentine Puma nine days after the Pucara was downed. Six Stingers had been acquired by the SAS prior to deployment.

    There was subsequently no further successful use of the system because the only SAS member trained in the use of Stinger was killed in a Sea King crash two days before the Pucara was brought down by his colleague. It had been intended for him to train his fellow SAS members in it's use, and it was their unfamiliarity with the weapons recharging procedures that rendered the remaining four useless.

  17. #42
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    yeah i was told something along those lines but it was beefed up a bit by the time i heard it through the squaddie rumour chain.

    it's like bloody cat and mouse though, we shoot them down, then they kill our lad who is supposed to train the rest...

    we learn by mistakes i guess, but i'm glad they were successful in bringing down 2 enemy aircraft with the Stinger.

    incidentally when we were on patrol conducting deterrent ops in the Falklands, we actually found a long lost Pucara which had gone down in a bog and had partially resurfaced over 12 years when we spotted it. the family of the crew came to the island to repatriate the bodies. i think that one was taken out by a Harrier and not a Stinger.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjock View Post
    There were two Stinger shoot downs in the Falklands. The second was an Argentine Puma nine days after the Pucara was downed. Six Stingers had been acquired by the SAS prior to deployment.

    There was subsequently no further successful use of the system because the only SAS member trained in the use of Stinger was killed in a Sea King crash two days before the Pucara was brought down by his colleague. It had been intended for him to train his fellow SAS members in it's use, and it was their unfamiliarity with the weapons recharging procedures that rendered the remaining four useless.
    Thats right, Staff Sergeant P. O'Connor, Irish Guards, G Squadron, he was an Irishman, he was seconded to the Delta Force to train as a Stinger instructor.

    "Paddy came to 22SAS in 1966. He served in South Arabia(Aden), Belize, Northern Ireland, Dhofar, Norway and the United States. A specialist Signaller, free-fall parachutist and Norwegian linguist, he was recalled from the US to serve in the Falklands because of his training in the use of the Stinger surface-to-air missile. Unfortunately he was killed in the helicopter crash, shortly after he had parachuted into the South Atlantic to join the task force."

    That sea King crash in the Falklands was the worst disaster to hit the SAS since WWII.
    Last edited by Vanguard; 14th January 2011 at 01:03.

  19. #44
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    yeah that was a sh|t day all right. especially having survived the para drop into ice cold water, it's a shame we lost such an obviously brilliant soldier, along with a whole lot of other good men in that conflict.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  20. #45
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    Three reason why we didn't buy them.

    1. They cost money - $50,000-100,000 per pop
    2. They might be used and need to be replaced, costing more money.
    3. Using them might cause an "international incident", even while on UN duty, that might result in retaliation.

    Notably, when the French moved in to South Lebanon in 2006, the Crotale(?) launchers were turned off after a few days in case they shot down any Israeli aircraft that were still over-flying Lebanon.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

  21. #46
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    "Paddy came to 22SAS in 1966..."
    Sixteen years in the SAS is no mean achievement...
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  22. #47
    jang-a-lang turbocalves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I read somewhere that Bofors were deployed with ONUC (not sure if they were Irish or not).
    The Swedes took Tunnans to the Congo to deal with the Fougas. I dunno if they took them over before or after Jadotville.

    And as has been pointed out the French deployed fast air in Chad and as mentioned, the Leb only the Yids had any kind of airpower- so taking anything over there would serve to annoy them more than anything else.
    But there's no danger
    It's a professional career
    Though it could be arranged
    With just a word in Mr. Churchill's ear
    If you're out of luck you're out of work
    We could send you to johannesburg.

    (Elvis Costello, Olivers Army)

  23. #48
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbocalves View Post
    The Swedes took Tunnans to the Congo to deal with the Fougas. I dunno if they took them over before or after Jadotville.

    And as has been pointed out the French deployed fast air in Chad and as mentioned, the Leb only the Yids had any kind of airpower- so taking anything over there would serve to annoy them more than anything else.
    What's your point?
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
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  24. #49
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    The Israelis regarded Lebanese airspace as theirs, in effect, and demanded that the UN always notify/ask permission for their Hueys to fly and the Israelis were not above denying UN flights under threat of shootdown. As far as I know, they even destroyed some of the Hueys on the ground. Which is why, the UN personnel always operated under the permanent threat of Israeli air attack.
    regards
    GttC

  25. #50
    Sergeant Major B Inman's Avatar
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    In Apr 1980 some of the Italair Helis were damaged when the DFF shelled UNIFIL HQ in Naqoura. This was shortly after the incident in At-Tiri when a DFF half track was destroyed by Irishbatt.

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