Thanks Thanks:  34
Likes Likes:  57
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 63
  1. #1
    Recruit
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Galway
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like

    Thumbs up New Mowag Piranhas in action

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43jmc...layer_embedded

    The new mowags are looking pretty fine.

    Just though i would bring this to yer attention in case any of ye missed it.

    Hope you enjoy.

  2. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV liked this post
  3. #2
    .303 MMG Vickers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    East
    Posts
    1,302
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Fantastic View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43jmc...layer_embedded

    The new mowags are looking pretty fine.

    Just though i would bring this to yer attention in case any of ye missed it.

    Hope you enjoy.
    Thank you but this has already been posted

    http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...&postcount=443
    “Fellow-soldiers of the Irish Republican Army, I have just received a communication from Commandant Pearse calling on us to surrender and you will agree with me that this is the hardest task we have been called upon to perform during this eventful week, but we came into this fight for Irish Independence in obedience to the commands of our higher officers and now in obedience to their wishes we must surrender. I know you would, like myself, prefer to be with our comrades who have already fallen in the fight—we, too, should rather die in this glorious struggle than submit to the enemy.” Volunteer Captain Patrick Holahan to 58 of his men at North Brunswick Street, the last group of the Four Courts Garrison to surrender, Sunday 30 April 1916.

  4. #3
    Private 2* PzBrig15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hello User ,

    So i hope you would see intersting Pictures of the MOWAG Piranha IIIC . I had see very specially Versions with 90 mm Turret and with 30 mm turret ( IFV ) . The Belgian Army had these Versions in use.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/pzbrig1...in/photostream

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/pzbrig1...in/photostream

    and a APC ( Armoured Personal Carrier )

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/pzbrig1...in/photostream

  5. #4
    Private 2* PzBrig15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hello Forum-User ,
    please can anybody help me ???
    In my Database I had list the new Mowag Piranha IIIC Belgium Army with 276 Vehicles .
    138x AIV Base Line
    64x AIV Infantry Vehicle
    19x DF30 with 30mm Turret
    18x DF 90mm with 90mm Turret
    14x Version Command Post
    8x Version Genie
    6x Version Medical
    9x Recovery Vehicle

    but many Informations (u.a. Wikipedia) are tell : Order 242
    What is now right ??? Had anyone the complete Orderlist ???

  6. #5
    Brigadier General
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,531
    Post Thanks / Like
    MOWAG's


  7. Likes Goldie fish, DeV, Truck Driver, Mr. Tezza liked this post
  8. #6
    Private 2* PzBrig15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    I had visit the Belgium Medium Brigade by Leopaoldsburg . So I had make a intersting Pictures- Thread.
    I hope you interested the Pictures by the follow LINK
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/pzbrig1...7630269931188/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/pzbrig1...7630269931188/

  9. Thanks Flamingo, Goldie fish, RoyalGreenJacket thanked for this post
  10. #7
    C/S
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,589
    Post Thanks / Like
    Just leave the keys of the leopards and the thing with the 90mm and walk away. we won't tell...

    regards
    GttC

  11. #8
    Private 2* PzBrig15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    I was a old Leopard 1 / 2 Enthusiast and active Soldier by these Cold War Time , but I had see the Piranha and get a instruction of these Weapon systems. I must said : For these new modern times these are a intersting System. For the Budget of a little Country ( belgium) a taff Think .

  12. #9
    C/S
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,589
    Post Thanks / Like
    This is the new modified Mowag. Money is tight so old equipment will be recycled....
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. Thanks pym thanked for this post
  14. #10
    Private 2* PzBrig15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    and here are a Add on by the MOWAG Piranha IIIC DF90 / Belgium Army ( Landcomponent)









    all Pictures of the Day of the Belgium Landcomponent at the follow LINK :

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/pzbrig1...7630269931188/

  15. Likes DeV, hptmurphy liked this post
  16. #11
    C/S
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    3,319
    Post Thanks / Like
    Rather tall, isn't it?
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

  17. Likes DeV liked this post
  18. #12
    Private 2* PzBrig15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    The Belgium Army / Landcomponent did use the Piranha IIIC DF90 by a Exercise at a Live Fireing Range at Germany




    and with the little caliber 30mm / the DF 30 ( Direct-Fire Vehicle)


    The High-Res Version of these Pictures :

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/pzbrig1...in/photostream

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/pzbrig1...in/photostream

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/pzbrig1...in/photostream

  19. #13
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    you already know too much
    Posts
    33,440
    Post Thanks / Like


    Published on Feb 10, 2013


    Mowag Armoured Personnel Carrier Driving Course

  20. Likes DeV liked this post
  21. #14
    Private 2* PzBrig15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    the MOWAG Piranha IIIC , Belgium Army by a Presentation on their Opendeur ( Open House)
    DF90 / Direct Fire 90 mm Caliber


     photo IMG_0360_zps228694e1.jpg

  22. #15
    Commandant Come-quickly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,753
    Post Thanks / Like
    Panzer: Have there been any independent or critical reports on its actual performance though?
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  23. Likes DeV liked this post
  24. #16
    Closed Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Villa Straylight
    Posts
    2,082
    Post Thanks / Like
    Is that an APU on the left rear of the hull? Also, is there any public data available on the applique armour? Those are big flat surfaces for any gunner to be shooting at.

    Just checked - the Belgian guns are the medium pressure (MP) version of the 90mm. The LP version wasn't a million miles from the one on the AML, with a mv of around 1200m/s for its APFSDS (a 2.5kg projectile with a diameter of 20mm), and which had very marginal penetration against tanks, even older ones (T-55 etc) from the front. It might have better behind armour effects, but as an anti tank weapon, it's about on a par with the 30mm Bushmaster the DF use. The MP seems better, with an mv of 1350m/s for the APFSDS, which should do 150mm RHAE at 2km - a bit back from even a 50 year old L7/M68, but not terrible. CMI advertise it as having 'similar' anti-tank capabilities to 105mm systems - in this case 'similar' appears to mean a bit 'worse', and on a platform that is very vulnerable to anything above 7.62mm ...

    http://www.armyrecognition.com/belgi...t_product.html
    Last edited by Aidan; 10th May 2013 at 12:47. Reason: Actually did some research

  25. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes Goldie fish, trellheim, DeV liked this post
  26. #17
    C/S
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    3,069
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Aidan View Post
    Is that an APU on the left rear of the hull? Also, is there any public data available on the applique armour? Those are big flat surfaces for any gunner to be shooting at.

    Just checked - the Belgian guns are the medium pressure (MP) version of the 90mm. The LP version wasn't a million miles from the one on the AML, with a mv of around 1200m/s for its APFSDS (a 2.5kg projectile with a diameter of 20mm), and which had very marginal penetration against tanks, even older ones (T-55 etc) from the front. It might have better behind armour effects, but as an anti tank weapon, it's about on a par with the 30mm Bushmaster the DF use. The MP seems better, with an mv of 1350m/s for the APFSDS, which should do 150mm RHAE at 2km - a bit back from even a 50 year old L7/M68, but not terrible. CMI advertise it as having 'similar' anti-tank capabilities to 105mm systems - in this case 'similar' appears to mean a bit 'worse', and on a platform that is very vulnerable to anything above 7.62mm ...

    http://www.armyrecognition.com/belgi...t_product.html
    its not designed to fight tanks, its designed to support infantry units in low intensity conflicts. For that mission its fine, as it will mainly be firing HE, HESH, cannister and smoke rounds

    You've got an obsession with these vehicles engaging tanks, in reality they're there to support infantry units fight third world units armed with technicals abnd light armoured vehicles.

  27. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV liked this post
  28. #18
    Commandant Come-quickly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,753
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'd be more curious about its stability, mobility, load and fcs.

    Can it smashy smashy pop up targets on the move I.e. as close in dfs on an advance to contact or when in a Liberia style coy gp patrol
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  29. #19
    Closed Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Villa Straylight
    Posts
    2,082
    Post Thanks / Like
    You've got an obsession with these vehicles engaging tanks, in reality they're there to support infantry units fight third world units armed with technicals abnd light armoured vehicles.
    When the reason for going with a large direct fire weapon (as opposed to an autocannon) is generally pointed out to be the effectiveness of the system in an anti-tank role, then it seems rational to start by having a look at it's effectivess in that role. For the Belgians, this replaces the Leo 1 and they were far from comfortable with the decision for a load of reasons, this being one (another being the widespread perception that the only reason this turret was purchased was to give a hand to the MECAR and CMI facilities in Belgium). This is a good outline.

    http://www.lalibre.be/index.php?view...&art_id=210132


    The question of weight, mobility and optics are every bit as important in the real world, given that it would likely have a role as a convoy escort or as a QRF role (where the Q matters). Mobility off road would be key in most of its roles, and that turret has a lot of weight, stacked very high up. Mechanical reliability is also going to be a factor, given the weight of the thing over the standard PIII - haven't the Irish ones had issues with axles and hubs? How is this going to manage if deployed somewhere typically third world, working off road for long periods with such high axle loads? Armour matters too, and not just because of the size of the thing, or because it is unlikely to have to deal with tanks. After all, a 'gunner' might be using a 23mm ZSU-2 on the back of a Hilux (or even a 12.7mm), and he's going to aim for the most dangerous target - this beast.

    Strikes me that there is a gap in the market here for Mowag - take the engine, drive train, suspension, axles etc from a PIII/PIV, and put them all in a lower, better armoured chassis than the PIIIC/H, and put a mid mounted turret on the thing, capable of taking anything from a 25mm, through 40mm CTA, to 105mm. It would resolve any stability or visual profile issues that arise from customers plonking a turret on top of an already quite tall apc, be better protected, but allow the benefit of commonality of mechanical and electrical systems across with existing customer PIII fleets. Bingo, an AMX-10RC for the 2020s, but cheaper to run.

  30. #20
    C/S
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    3,069
    Post Thanks / Like
    Aidan the canadians did a really good review into this type of vehicle back in 1998, have a look its on the web at

    http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/DLCD-DC...May%201998.pdf

    The large weapon is there for infantry support, that is why the Americans developed the MGS, its there to fire HESH, cannister and Smoke to support infantry units, they use Stryker TOW or M-1 Abrams to engage MBT.

    if you think about the DF, the battalion for any future operations will be pretty similar to the one in the lebanon at the monent, two infantry companies and a Recce company with a battalion Support group; if you're going to have a Direct fire Support Cability at all, it will fit in the Recce Company, as an extra troop to support the infantry companies.

    Now personally I think that there is a role for Direct fire support, but I'd rather see a mortar carrier bought first and the mowag fleet updated.
    Last edited by paul g; 10th May 2013 at 15:11.

  31. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV liked this post
  32. #21
    Closed Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Villa Straylight
    Posts
    2,082
    Post Thanks / Like
    Interesting paper.

    However, it is worth noting that both the Americans and Canadians have cancelled their MGS order, and both now use MBTs in the fire support role in Afghanistan. The Canadians went so far as to have their Leopard 2s shipped straight there, despite the lack of an armoured threat, such was their desire to have a tank in theatre (after starting off with their Leopard 1s). The future tank, in both cases, is a tank (and to be fair, supplemented by a mix of LAVIIIs/Strykers, Bradleys and air support).

    In simple terms, the majority of western countries have not pursued the concept of landing a big gun on an APC and using that to supplement or replace a tank. There are reasons for this.

  33. #22
    Brigadier General
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,531
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Aidan View Post
    The LP version wasn't a million miles from the one on the AML, with a mv of around 1200m/s for its APFSDS (a 2.5kg projectile with a diameter of 20mm), and which had very marginal penetration against tanks, even older ones (T-55 etc) from the front. It might have better behind armour effects, but as an anti tank weapon, it's about on a par with the 30mm Bushmaster the DF use.
    I don't know of hand what the effects on armour of the AML 90 or MRV but a HEAT round from an AML 90 wound penetration twice the thickness of armour the MRVs 30mm gun could.

    The French are planning on moving away from the big gun on their recce vehicles, replacing both the ERC 90 and AMX 10 with a vehicle armed with a 40mm gun and multi target missile.

  34. Thanks Aidan, DeV thanked for this post
  35. #23
    Commandant Come-quickly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,753
    Post Thanks / Like
    Aidan, all valid points. But I kind of think your reply is non sequitur to Paul's last.
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  36. #24
    C/S
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    3,069
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Aidan View Post
    However, it is worth noting that both the Americans and Canadians have cancelled their MGS order, and both now use MBTs in the fire support role in Afghanistan. The Canadians went so far as to have their Leopard 2s shipped straight there, despite the lack of an armoured threat, such was their desire to have a tank in theatre (after starting off with their Leopard 1s). The future tank, in both cases, is a tank (and to be fair, supplemented by a mix of LAVIIIs/Strykers, Bradleys and air support).

    .
    yep, actually quite sad to see the men who spent their careers dreaming of fighting kursk mk 2 reduced to providing direct fire support to mere infantrymen.

    What is it, three danish leopards and about 14 abrams in total in Afganistan? Out of how many armoured vehicles?

  37. #25
    Private 3* Jungle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,524
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by paul g View Post
    yep, actually quite sad to see the men who spent their careers dreaming of fighting kursk mk 2 reduced to providing direct fire support to mere infantrymen.
    "Mere Infantrymen" My tanker friends, including the last Tank Sqn Commander in Kandahar, did not seem to mind their DFS role. Actually, they thought that was much better than operating some "tank-wannabes" and showing the flag on peacekeeping missions (we did that for far too long...). Armies are designed and trained for combat; everything else is a side show.

    Quote Originally Posted by paul g View Post
    What is it, three danish leopards and about 14 abrams in total in Afganistan? Out of how many armoured vehicles?
    If you look at it in raw numbers only, you gotta point... but you shouldn't; we deployed 20 MBTs to Kandahar until 2011, and the effects they brought were disproportionate to their numbers.
    "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

    Never give up!!"

  38. Likes DeV, FMP liked this post

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •