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  • Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    fear of attack from observing one of the factions is not a reason not to deploy such assets - surely it is the very reason to deploy such assets in the first instance.
    Where did I say anything about fear?

    Peacekeeping Missions do NOT follow the same ground rules as combat missions,

    at this point in time U.N.I.F.I.L. are regulated to where and what particular jobs they can do in their A.O.s in some cases nothing unless accompanied by the local Lebanese military.

    that said, by the time you got a U.A.V. up, and in such a close confined space as the A.O. all in sundry would know about it and the area would remain quiet until the toys were put away.

    ITALIAIR operating Hueys, were primarily a source of MEDEVAC for most of the time in U.N.I.F.I.L. if my memory serves me correctly, I don't think there were any fixed wing assets allocated to U.N.I.F.I.L. anything such as planes would be on the IDF watch list for fear it might be a terrorist infiltration, the PLO had launched infiltration by Hot Air Balloon and motorized hang-gliders in the past.

    Connaught Stranger.

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    • I saw a white Huey over Tibnin yesterday.
      www.twitter.com/mickthehack

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      • The real reason we're not deploying air assets is because we don't really have many
        and they're not gonna risk them when we can just as easily borrow off everyone else..

        Once it doesn't get too political that is!!
        Life's short, party naked :-)

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        • Originally posted by Mad P View Post
          The real reason we're not deploying air assets is because ...they're not gonna risk them when we can just as easily borrow off everyone else..

          Once it doesn't get too political that is!!
          i know what you mean but - it's not really the right attitude to have when committing troops to an overseas operation, especially when you have those decent air assets and crew at home.
          RGJ

          ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

          The Rifles

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          • Originally posted by Connaught Stranger View Post
            that said, by the time you got a U.A.V. up, and in such a close confined space as the A.O. all in sundry would know about it and the area would remain quiet until the toys were put away.
            Does that imply then that the role of UNIFIL is to provide a visible deterrent rather than active prevention? ie to make the movement of militants more difficult rather than to actively seek them out based on gathered intelligence?

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            • Did the UN request any air support from Ireland?
              Last edited by Orion; 24 June 2011, 20:36.

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              • Ireland is not in a position to provide any really. There's not the numbers.

                I wouldn't imagine any issues with the UAV's operating out there. Man portable and very discreet, they have the radar cross section of a hummingbird. However I'm sure the Israelis have the access to the security protocols and the EM warfare know-how to hack into the feed.

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                • Originally posted by Connaught Stranger View Post
                  by the time you got a U.A.V. up, and in such a close confined space as the A.O. all in sundry would know about it and the area would remain quiet until the toys were put away.
                  even to a simple man like me that says one thing - get UAV's up there 24/7 and don't 'put the toys away'.

                  having a chopper overhead during operations in Northern Ireland was found to be a massive deterrent.

                  as a result we deployed them over Belfast and Derry on an almost 24/7 basis for that very reason.

                  it didn't stop everything, but it was very effective, and given the role in UNIFIL, conducting operations that prevent hostile action are surely what should be conducted.
                  RGJ

                  ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                  The Rifles

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                  • You cant really send up a small fleet of short ranged weather limited UAV's up on a 24 hr basis, it's just not feasible unfortunately.

                    Neither are they a visible deterrent like a helicopter. You wouldn't even be aware of their presence. What CS is alluding to is the art of launching one in a confined AO without it becoming public knowledge.

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                    • fair one JJ, and i wasn't aiming my remarks at the Irish DF alone - surely its something the UN should be pursuing.
                      RGJ

                      ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                      The Rifles

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
                        Does that imply then that the role of UNIFIL is to provide a visible deterrent rather than active prevention? ie to make the movement of militants more difficult rather than to actively seek them out based on gathered intelligence?
                        If you read up on the currant U.N.I.F.I.L. mandate, then I don't see anything about U.N.I.F.I.L being allowed to "seek anybody out" in the sovereign territory of Lebanon, the same way as they have not opposed the Israeli military moving through the A.O. down through the years.

                        Most U.N. Peacekeeping (as opposed to Peace-enforcing) is by being a visible deterrent.

                        Connaught Stranger

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                        • Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
                          fair one JJ, and i wasn't aiming my remarks at the Irish DF alone - surely its something the UN should be pursuing.
                          Other nations do have UAV's deployed as far as I'm aware. There are of a more suitable type than the Irish Army's "OVER THE HILL" mini UAV's.

                          I'm sure that there is a designated sharing of this force asset across AO's by UNIFIL HQ, depending on a perceived threat in any given area.

                          Fundamentally though, by their very nature any form of UAV is discreet. It is far removed from anything that could provide a visible deterrent.
                          Last edited by Jetjock; 24 June 2011, 21:02.

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                          • Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
                            even to a simple man like me that says one thing - get UAV's up there 24/7 and don't 'put the toys away'.

                            having a chopper overhead during operations in Northern Ireland was found to be a massive deterrent.

                            as a result we deployed them over Belfast and Derry on an almost 24/7 basis for that very reason.

                            it didn't stop everything, but it was very effective, and given the role in UNIFIL, conducting operations that prevent hostile action are surely what should be conducted.
                            Again two different scenarios, British Forces operating on their sovereign ground against home grown (for the most part) terrorists as opposed to U.N.I.F.I.L. a multi-national "Peacekeeping Force" on a strict U.N.mandate in a foreign sovereign state.

                            Connaught Stranger.

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                            • Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
                              Ireland is not in a position to provide any really. There's not the numbers.
                              That's what I thought, as an earlier post pointed out UNIFIL is composite in nature.

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                              • Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
                                You cant really send up a small fleet of short ranged weather limited UAV's up on a 24 hr basis, it's just not feasible unfortunately.

                                Neither are they a visible deterrent like a helicopter. You wouldn't even be aware of their presence. What CS is alluding to is the art of launching one in a confined AO without it becoming public knowledge.
                                The Israelis did it all the time in south Lebanon.. it was the Israelis who started using UAV's initially before the rest of the world at such a scale there in use now..

                                Although, it was sometimes hard to get a visual, you could hear them when ever they were in the AO.


                                This type in particular was quite visible when I was there in 95 onwards ..

                                Last edited by Craghopper; 24 June 2011, 21:26.

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