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Thread: Unifil(3)

  1. #1076
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    probably keeping sealant protected as it dries?..........a ton and a half? is that all? It's a hell of a cost just to shift a ton and a half. I hope there was more to it than just that The aircraft has a published payload of 6 tons.
    Last edited by GoneToTheCanner; 11th November 2018 at 05:52.

  2. #1077
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    It would also be a huge waste of a 20 foot container, unless it was a very bulky load.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
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  4. #1078
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodes View Post

    Great example of OSINT source:

    1.5t ordnance (ammo) = 1500kg (Twitter)
    Weight of 5.56mm ammo can = 15.1kg (1000rds) (Google)
    Total ammo boxes = 1500/15.1 = approx 100 cans
    Battlevest has 4 X double magazine (30rds) pouches = 240rds per soldier +30rds on rifle = 270rds per soldier (wiki)

    100cans X 1000rds = 100,000rds √∑ 270per soldier = 370 soldiers

    436 Irish soldiers serving in UNIFIL (330 before extra 106)
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...anon-1.3618484

    OC No1 Ops Wing could have just said they delivered cargo!

  5. #1079
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    It would also be a huge waste of a 20 foot container, unless it was a very bulky load.
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    Doubt a 20ft would fit it’s probably just picking up the cargo

  6. #1080
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
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    Doubt a 20ft would fit it’s probably just picking up the cargo
    Never suggested it would be carried in the hold, just that 1.5kg of ordnance could just as easily be carried on a pallet(or two), and loaded into a flatbed or back of a truck. If you put it into the back of a 20 foot you have to secure it in an otherwise empty box so it won't move as it is loaded or unloaded from the DROPS vehicle.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
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  7. #1081
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    a ton and a half? is that all? It's a hell of a cost just to shift a ton and a half. I hope there was more to it than just that The aircraft has a published payload of 6 tons.
    Max cargo is a lot less than 6,000kg, maybe a bare-bones cargo Casa could get off the ground with that weight be certainly not an MPA.
    Plus you're also limited by available space onboard in an MPA.
    As for cost, to charter an aircraft would cost considerably more.

    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post
    Great example of OSINT source:

    1.5t ordnance (ammo) = 1500kg (Twitter)
    Weight of 5.56mm ammo can = 15.1kg (1000rds) (Google)
    Total ammo boxes = 1500/15.1 = approx 100 cans
    Battlevest has 4 X double magazine (30rds) pouches = 240rds per soldier +30rds on rifle = 270rds per soldier (wiki)

    100cans X 1000rds = 100,000rds √∑ 270per soldier = 370 soldiers

    436 Irish soldiers serving in UNIFIL (330 before extra 106)
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...anon-1.3618484

    OC No1 Ops Wing could have just said they delivered cargo!
    Who says its 5.56mm ammo? "Ordnance" could be anything from a Steyr rifle to a Javelin anti-tank missile.

    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Never suggested it would be carried in the hold, just that 1.5kg of ordnance could just as easily be carried on a pallet(or two), and loaded into a flatbed or back of a truck. If you put it into the back of a 20 foot you have to secure it in an otherwise empty box so it won't move as it is loaded or unloaded from the DROPS vehicle.
    No matter what vehicle you load cargo onto its still going to have to be secured, unless its something like backpacks you wouldn't worry about too much.

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  9. #1082
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    It wasn't ammo. 'Nuff said.
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    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  10. #1083
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    I know. I served on the things. The mission equipment takes up most of the room in the aircraft. As you rightly point out, ordnance means a lot of things. Boots, beans, bullets,etc. For that weight, you'd probably fill one or two ULDs in a Fedex or DHL aircraft and it would probably go Dublin-Frankfurt-Beirut inside 24 hours. Naturally, you have security to consider, it being a UNIFIL job. Running the Casa all the way to Beirut just to shift a ton and a half is inefficient; short legs, multiple fuel stops, crew rest. If all they needed was a few thousand bullets, why not buy it from the Lebanese Government? I expect there was a training element involved in that they might have been showing new pilots the ropes.

  11. #1084
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    ‚ÄúOrdnance‚ÄĚ could cover a lot of different things could be a replacement RWS for example

  12. #1085
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    The CN235 cannot take a ISO 20ft container, the smallest aircraft that could do that would be a C-130. As for the 6000kg payload, even the non-MPA version would not be able to fly far with that onboard. The MTOW is fixed so more cargo is traded for fuel, this mean if you fly 6000kg then your range drops a lot.

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  14. #1086
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    It wasn't ammo. 'Nuff said.
    We know it was cigarettes

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    Admit it, it was the new boots!
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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  18. #1088
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    Smokes, bud...I need me smokes.

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  20. #1089
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    The CN235 cannot take a ISO 20ft container, the smallest aircraft that could do that would be a C-130. As for the 6000kg payload, even the non-MPA version would not be able to fly far with that onboard. The MTOW is fixed so more cargo is traded for fuel, this mean if you fly 6000kg then your range drops a lot.
    It's perfectly capable of taking more than 1.5T but the MPA can't take the universal ULD as it's too full already. I'd imagine it was flight planned to make stops every three or four hours over two or three days. it also doesnt mention if there were extra people on board as pax. Once again, it highlights the inability of an MPA to act as a proper cargo aircraft. The Cargo container in the photo was brought there by the DROPs truck.

  21. #1090
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    Yes, a dedicated transport would be better, but it is all we have at the moment and it is always to do a training flight such as this just in case there is another case like Libya again.

    The CN-235 can still take at least one ULD on the ramp, one 436L (ULD Type B) and has a rating of 3400kg. The 20ft ISO shown with the DROPS would be able to take 2 436L pallets.
    As for stops, looking at the CN-235 Payload/Range diagram and routing restrictions etc they should have been able to make the trip with one stop-over, most likely in Italy.

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