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Thread: Unifil(3)

  1. #276
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjock View Post
    Now now RGJ..and you were doing so well.
    no - seriously.

    i take that as a no then.

    what about UAV's? great bit of kit in the observation role and would be quite useful out there i would imagine.
    RGJ

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  2. #277
    Lt Colonel Connaught Stranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    no - seriously.

    i take that as a no then.

    what about UAV's? great bit of kit in the observation role and would be quite useful out there i would imagine.
    Not really, as they would being constant danger of colliding with the I.D.F. ones (the other I.D.F. not the Irish one )

    Connaught Stranger

  3. #278
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Connaught Stranger View Post
    Not really, as they would being constant danger of colliding with the I.D.F. ones (the other I.D.F. not the Irish one )

    Connaught Stranger
    surely the UN must have some rights when it comes to deploying UAV's over their own AOR?
    RGJ

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  4. #279
    Lt Colonel Connaught Stranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    surely the UN must have some rights when it comes to deploying UAV's over their own AOR?
    Thats part of the problem when the A.O. is sandwiched smack up against an International border such as between Northern Israel & Southern Lebanon, and also a reason for U.N.I.F.I.L. to be targeted by the "Hezzies" who don't want anybody to know what they are up to in the area.

    Connaught Stranger.

  5. #280
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    are the Irish DF not deploying any air assets to UNIFIL?
    ITALAIR provided any necessary air assets to UNIFIL in the past.
    The Beauty of UN missions like this is each contingint bring the assets they are best capable of providing, to make a composite formation.
    In the past Ireland provided transport or Logs formations to Somalia and Kosovo. There was definitely a unit made up of just MPs in KFOR also.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  6. #281
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    fear of attack from observing one of the factions is not a reason not to deploy such assets - surely it is the very reason to deploy such assets in the first instance.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  7. #282
    Retired sapper smegers's Avatar
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    Didn't we buy our UAV's off the Israelis?

  8. #283
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    fear of attack from observing one of the factions is not a reason not to deploy such assets - surely it is the very reason to deploy such assets in the first instance.
    Jaysus RG, it isn't attacking them we are worried about, its bumping off them that's the problem.

    Your questions can all be answered by MANDATE MANDATE MANDATE.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  9. #284
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    There was definitely a unit made up of just MPs in KFOR also.
    It was IFOR/SFOR

  10. #285
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Jaysus RG, it isn't attacking them we are worried about, its bumping off them that's the problem.

    Your questions can all be answered by MANDATE MANDATE MANDATE.
    i know Goldie - the rules out there are not set by the Irish DF and what they have but can't deploy does not reflect on the Irish DF's capability.

    we've only touched the iceberg and i'm going to leave it at that as i can already see why i hate UN missions.

    i'm sure the lads will make the most of any asset in any situation anyhow.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  11. #286
    Lt Colonel Connaught Stranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    fear of attack from observing one of the factions is not a reason not to deploy such assets - surely it is the very reason to deploy such assets in the first instance.
    Where did I say anything about fear?

    Peacekeeping Missions do NOT follow the same ground rules as combat missions,

    at this point in time U.N.I.F.I.L. are regulated to where and what particular jobs they can do in their A.O.s in some cases nothing unless accompanied by the local Lebanese military.

    that said, by the time you got a U.A.V. up, and in such a close confined space as the A.O. all in sundry would know about it and the area would remain quiet until the toys were put away.

    ITALIAIR operating Hueys, were primarily a source of MEDEVAC for most of the time in U.N.I.F.I.L. if my memory serves me correctly, I don't think there were any fixed wing assets allocated to U.N.I.F.I.L. anything such as planes would be on the IDF watch list for fear it might be a terrorist infiltration, the PLO had launched infiltration by Hot Air Balloon and motorized hang-gliders in the past.

    Connaught Stranger.

  12. #287
    BQMS
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    I saw a white Huey over Tibnin yesterday.
    www.twitter.com/mickthehack


  13. #288
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    The real reason we're not deploying air assets is because we don't really have many
    and they're not gonna risk them when we can just as easily borrow off everyone else..

    Once it doesn't get too political that is!!
    Life's short, party naked :-)

  14. #289
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad P View Post
    The real reason we're not deploying air assets is because ...they're not gonna risk them when we can just as easily borrow off everyone else..

    Once it doesn't get too political that is!!
    i know what you mean but - it's not really the right attitude to have when committing troops to an overseas operation, especially when you have those decent air assets and crew at home.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  15. #290
    Commandant Jetjock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Connaught Stranger View Post
    that said, by the time you got a U.A.V. up, and in such a close confined space as the A.O. all in sundry would know about it and the area would remain quiet until the toys were put away.
    Does that imply then that the role of UNIFIL is to provide a visible deterrent rather than active prevention? ie to make the movement of militants more difficult rather than to actively seek them out based on gathered intelligence?

  16. #291
    Amadan Orion's Avatar
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    Did the UN request any air support from Ireland?
    Last edited by Orion; 24th June 2011 at 19:36.

  17. #292
    Commandant Jetjock's Avatar
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    Ireland is not in a position to provide any really. There's not the numbers.

    I wouldn't imagine any issues with the UAV's operating out there. Man portable and very discreet, they have the radar cross section of a hummingbird. However I'm sure the Israelis have the access to the security protocols and the EM warfare know-how to hack into the feed.

  18. #293
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Connaught Stranger View Post
    by the time you got a U.A.V. up, and in such a close confined space as the A.O. all in sundry would know about it and the area would remain quiet until the toys were put away.
    even to a simple man like me that says one thing - get UAV's up there 24/7 and don't 'put the toys away'.

    having a chopper overhead during operations in Northern Ireland was found to be a massive deterrent.

    as a result we deployed them over Belfast and Derry on an almost 24/7 basis for that very reason.

    it didn't stop everything, but it was very effective, and given the role in UNIFIL, conducting operations that prevent hostile action are surely what should be conducted.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  19. #294
    Commandant Jetjock's Avatar
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    You cant really send up a small fleet of short ranged weather limited UAV's up on a 24 hr basis, it's just not feasible unfortunately.

    Neither are they a visible deterrent like a helicopter. You wouldn't even be aware of their presence. What CS is alluding to is the art of launching one in a confined AO without it becoming public knowledge.

  20. #295
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    fair one JJ, and i wasn't aiming my remarks at the Irish DF alone - surely its something the UN should be pursuing.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  21. #296
    Lt Colonel Connaught Stranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjock View Post
    Does that imply then that the role of UNIFIL is to provide a visible deterrent rather than active prevention? ie to make the movement of militants more difficult rather than to actively seek them out based on gathered intelligence?
    If you read up on the currant U.N.I.F.I.L. mandate, then I don't see anything about U.N.I.F.I.L being allowed to "seek anybody out" in the sovereign territory of Lebanon, the same way as they have not opposed the Israeli military moving through the A.O. down through the years.

    Most U.N. Peacekeeping (as opposed to Peace-enforcing) is by being a visible deterrent.

    Connaught Stranger

  22. #297
    Commandant Jetjock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    fair one JJ, and i wasn't aiming my remarks at the Irish DF alone - surely its something the UN should be pursuing.
    Other nations do have UAV's deployed as far as I'm aware. There are of a more suitable type than the Irish Army's "OVER THE HILL" mini UAV's.

    I'm sure that there is a designated sharing of this force asset across AO's by UNIFIL HQ, depending on a perceived threat in any given area.

    Fundamentally though, by their very nature any form of UAV is discreet. It is far removed from anything that could provide a visible deterrent.
    Last edited by Jetjock; 24th June 2011 at 20:02.

  23. #298
    Lt Colonel Connaught Stranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    even to a simple man like me that says one thing - get UAV's up there 24/7 and don't 'put the toys away'.

    having a chopper overhead during operations in Northern Ireland was found to be a massive deterrent.

    as a result we deployed them over Belfast and Derry on an almost 24/7 basis for that very reason.

    it didn't stop everything, but it was very effective, and given the role in UNIFIL, conducting operations that prevent hostile action are surely what should be conducted.
    Again two different scenarios, British Forces operating on their sovereign ground against home grown (for the most part) terrorists as opposed to U.N.I.F.I.L. a multi-national "Peacekeeping Force" on a strict U.N.mandate in a foreign sovereign state.

    Connaught Stranger.

  24. #299
    Amadan Orion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjock View Post
    Ireland is not in a position to provide any really. There's not the numbers.
    That's what I thought, as an earlier post pointed out UNIFIL is composite in nature.

  25. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjock View Post
    You cant really send up a small fleet of short ranged weather limited UAV's up on a 24 hr basis, it's just not feasible unfortunately.

    Neither are they a visible deterrent like a helicopter. You wouldn't even be aware of their presence. What CS is alluding to is the art of launching one in a confined AO without it becoming public knowledge.
    The Israelis did it all the time in south Lebanon.. it was the Israelis who started using UAV's initially before the rest of the world at such a scale there in use now..

    Although, it was sometimes hard to get a visual, you could hear them when ever they were in the AO.


    This type in particular was quite visible when I was there in 95 onwards ..

    Last edited by Craghopper; 24th June 2011 at 20:26.

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