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  • #61
    applying a tourniquet is basic battlefield first-aid - every soldier should be trained in it and issued one when required.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

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    • #62
      Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
      applying a tourniquet is basic battlefield first-aid - every soldier should be trained in it and issued one when required.
      Ah sure it's grand, we'll get by without needing to do that.



      In my experience, the above is the mindset of the majority of people in command positions in the DF. There's a difference between a leader and a manager. We have lots of managers with very few leaders.

      The mindset of those in command will never change until we go on Ops and start taking casualties are involved in proper combat Ops akin to those your lads are carrying out in A'Stan. I can't see us getting invovled in those kind of Ops anytime soon, so the majority of the DF, with a few exceptions, will just continue to wander down the road of ignorance. Oblivious to or else purposely ignoring, our many shortcomings.
      Last edited by Hello Alaska; 13 May 2011, 01:47.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
        applying a tourniquet is basic battlefield first-aid - every soldier should be trained in it and issued one when required.
        It is and it should be. I've done the training myself so know whats involved and its not complicated. I just see the current medical regulations in Ireland posing a problem when it comes to what soldier can and cannot do. Reading back over the thread I see Fiannoglach said he believes the DF are possibly looking at introducing military specific modules into the training so maybe they have worked it out.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
          applying a tourniquet is basic battlefield first-aid - every soldier should be trained in it and issued one when required.
          I, in common with all my fellow recruits, was taught this in my
          first aid module by a Sgt in my then unit, who was a medic with DFB
          "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
            I, in common with all my fellow recruits, was taught this in my
            first aid module by a Sgt in my then unit, who was a medic with DFB
            But that was what 20 years ago??? And just because your Sgt was a fireman, doesnt mean that the army recognised his qualifications. Furthermore just because you were taught it doesnt mean it was on the syllabus. And if it was why is it not any more??

            There is a lad in our unit (I believe you know him) who is also DFB and has gotten himself covered to do the Rec FA lectures and I have sat in on these and there was no mention of tourniquet- and this is also the case in lectures given from the Med Coy that I have sat in on.

            I think HA has a point that there are too many managers, and too few leaders. It needs somebody up the chain to realise that the way things are is bollocks and get a grip of it. But as with many many other things thats not gonna happen.....
            But there's no danger
            It's a professional career
            Though it could be arranged
            With just a word in Mr. Churchill's ear
            If you're out of luck you're out of work
            We could send you to johannesburg.

            (Elvis Costello, Olivers Army)

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            • #66
              APOD, Excellent posts re lack of realistic battlefield medic training.
              As an Idea why dont PDFORRA not bring it up as an issue, our guys should be trained etc or some will die and we will sue.
              Whty are Batt Cos not kicking up a racket.
              My Trg in thsi area in Df was extremely poor but I receioved trg at my own expense elsewhere,
              But not up to modern medic standard,
              Is there a blue moon tonight?

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              • #67
                Is it the case that when a doctor discovers that a tourniquet has been used

                he will amputate due to the danger of gangrene setting in. ????

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by turbocalves View Post
                  But that was what 20 years ago??? And just because your Sgt was a fireman, doesnt mean that the army recognised his qualifications. Furthermore just because you were taught it doesnt mean it was on the syllabus. And if it was why is it not any more??
                  21 years ago and counting
                  As for why not now, well, like anything, as new discoveries are made, protocols are
                  removed or amended - medicine would be no different in that regard

                  There is a lad in our unit (I believe you know him) who is also DFB and has gotten himself covered to do the Rec FA lectures and I have sat in on these and there was no mention of tourniquet- and this is also the case in lectures given from the Med Coy that I have sat in on
                  I do indeed know him, a good lad

                  Originally posted by sofa View Post
                  Is it the case that when a doctor discovers that a tourniquet has been used

                  he will amputate due to the danger of gangrene setting in. ????
                  From the training we received many moons ago, I seem to recall that a tourniquet should not be
                  kept on for longer than a minute at a time, to prevent this
                  But as I said above, medical protocols have changed over time, so I say this advisedly

                  Given the choice:
                  You come across a casualty with a severe leg wound
                  Bleed out to death in approx 2 mins, or apply the tourniquet, improve
                  the survival possibility, survive and lose the limb ? Your choice is....
                  "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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                  • #69
                    Max 2 hours for a tourniquet or you risk major damage. Mark casualties forehead TK plus time of application and ensure to keep the device uncovered so it can be seen.

                    US Combat Lifesaver course teaches that the only treatment while under fire is to apply a tourniquet. Once the tactical situation has stabilised the CLS will then attempt to remove the TK and treat with direct pressure if feasible. If a TK has been on for longer than 6 hours it should only be removed by medical personnel.


                    Note - I have NOT completed a tactical medical course such as CLS or BATLS.
                    "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by BANDIT View Post
                      APOD, Excellent posts re lack of realistic battlefield medic training.
                      As an Idea why dont PDFORRA not bring it up as an issue, our guys should be trained etc or some will die and we will sue.
                      Whty are Batt Cos not kicking up a racket.
                      My Trg in thsi area in Df was extremely poor but I receioved trg at my own expense elsewhere,
                      But not up to modern medic standard,
                      Is there a blue moon tonight?
                      It's pure and utter laziness.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
                        21 years ago and counting

                        From the training we received many moons ago, I seem to recall that a tourniquet should not be kept on for longer than a minute at a time, to prevent this
                        But as I said above, medical protocols have changed over time, so I say this advisedly

                        Given the choice:
                        You come across a casualty with a severe leg wound
                        Bleed out to death in approx 2 mins, or apply the tourniquet, improve
                        the survival possibility, survive and lose the limb ? Your choice is....

                        TD
                        My handbook used to say that a tourniquet should not be applied unless various actions had been tried-

                        a If on a limb elevate the part
                        b Apply direct pressure using a dressing pad
                        c Apply a further pad of cotton wool and bandage
                        d If bleeding continues apply digital pressure on the main artery supplying the part for at least 5 mins. until a clot has formed

                        If all that fails only then apply a tourniquet
                        1 Note time on patients forehead
                        2 Release every 15 mins. for 30 seconds.

                        But that was some time ago as well.
                        Last edited by timhorgan; 14 May 2011, 20:26.

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                        • #72
                          The idea of using a tourniquet is for stabilization of the patient (where needed) so that he can be evaced back for more thorough care.

                          In the case I mentioned above, from the time of the incident to when the medevac landed it was about 45 mins (too long but that's another story). The soldiers on the ground used two tourniquets to stop the bleeding and try and stabilize him. Considering that there can be and in this case were other critically wounded soldiers you do what you need to with an understanding that you are going to try and get him to those who can provide more specialized care. It is somewhat criminal to think that any army, considering the threats on the modern battlefield, don't consider all options to help treat a soldier and save their life. In the case of our medic, if we didn't have/weren't trained in/weren't allowed to use tourniquets then he would have been another KIA along with the driver of the vehicle.

                          I would like to add though, I'm not a medic, I'm CLS qualified (for whatever that is worth) but I'm just drawing from the experience of my deployment.
                          There may be only one time in your life when your country will call upon you and you will be the only one who can do the nasty job that has to be done -- do it or forever after there will be the taste of ashes in your mouth.

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                          • #73
                            Great post , id sum it up in 3 words " Duty Of Care "
                            Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier - Samuel Johnson

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                            • #74
                              Well said, ARNGScout

                              As I said above, and what was always drummed into us in those
                              medical lectures, "stop the bleeding, the infecttion can be dealt with afterwards"
                              "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Casualties slow up the assault.....most of them are screwed when they are hit. The way to prevent the casualties is to destroy the threat quickly, all of them .......usually with lots of bombs, bullets, knives and well trained aggressive killers that expect to be hurt if they screw up. Basic first aid works on the battle field. when you start training guys in high speed low drag medical techniques ..it only distracts them from killing the enemy....."Blood makes the grass grow"

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