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  1. #251
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Interesting but could be OPSEC

  2. #252
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    True, it's borderline OPSEC. If someone knows and doesn't want to post it. Please PM me or hit me up via other channels. Cheers.

  3. #253
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    From what I can tell, all you are giving is relevant callsigns. There is a video from a British TOC in Afghan and line 2 was given as follows: "2:MAVERICK 20, TAD MALIVE 31 or CAG. Controlling C/S WIDOW 31"
    It's all callsigns. Anyway, we operate on established NETs so there is no point giving out frequencies and the lot for a NET you are already on.

    Found a US ROTC training video that runs through the 9 liner.

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  5. #254
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    Also found this
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by F_M; 23rd July 2014 at 18:47.

  6. #255
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    What???? An attachment that works!!!!

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  8. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by F_M View Post
    It's all callsigns. Anyway, we operate on established NETs so there is no point giving out frequencies and the lot for a NET you are already on.
    I don't think it's as simple as you make it out to be.

    Consider this scenario. Let's assume that a Helo Medevac is a Bde level asset. You're an infantry platoon sized patrol operating away from a Coy FOB.

    Initial 9 Liner needs to be Tx'd over the Coy net from Platoon to Coy HQ. Coy HQ then need to pass that info to Bn via the Bn net. Bn will then relay that further onto Bde. That's potentially three nets that the 9 liner has passed through so far. 3 separate sets of frequencies and encryptions, with different codewords and probably different authentication cards. Assuming that is that none of these nets had to initiate net compromise protocols during the 9 line process, thus adding more freqs and encryption into the mix.

    Once at Bde, I'm guessing there's either a bird table or a liason offr on standby to initiate the helo response which could be done by secure phone or yet another net that manages the aerial assets. At Bde level, there's likely to be separate multi-control nets for the Engrs, MPs, Inf, SF, Cav, Logs, Meds etc as well as other sigs infrastructure such as MSRs, APOD, SPOD, Fd Hosp etc. Each using their own freqs and encryption with alternates for compromise or change routine. Chances are as well that each signaller at Bde HQ has responsibility for 2-3 nets each, operating on a 12hr shift rotation.

    So to simply say "there is no point giving out frequencies and the lot for a NET you are already on." is incorrect, because chances are your transmission of the 9 Liner omitting the Freq is only the first hop across a multitude of nets, where the margins for operator error and equipment failure are greatly increased with each hop; and it's not enough to rely on the first recipient of the 9 liner to add in the Freq and encryption details of the net they just Rx'd the 9 Liner from before Tx'ing on another net.

    Also, I think (although may be wrong) when it says "Encrypt the Frequency of the Radio at the Pickup site" it means to encrypt the numerals of the frequency for transmission over unsecured means. In the BA we used to use BATCO cypher for this. Meaning that Freq 47100 would be transmitted as something similar to "AI OJ YD HK PG BQ" instead. If you're conversing via a secure channel, then that shouldn't be necessary.

    Now if I were to write the SOP for this, each patrol would be given a SC Freq to use during the timeframe of a Medevac after the 9 liner has gone through and the patrol has Rx'd confirmation that Medevac helo is inbound. It would simplify the establishment of comms between the Helo crew and Inf Pl. It would also free up the Coy net of traffic pertaining to the Medevac allowing other concurrent high priority traffic to pass. This freq would be unsecured, but in SIGINT terms, the likelihood is you've already made contact with the En, a Helo has an overt presence anyway, and your location has already been communicated via secure means. You'll be insecurely discussing MIST HOTO and HLZ specifics only for a short duration, so that would be difficult to capitalise on unless the En is particularly lucky or competent with EW/SIGINT and has appropriate assets in place to act on it. In which case you're fairly screwed anyway as they're more likely to have gathered a wealth of intel regarding your units' composition and disposition from your PRR Tx.

    Like I say, all I'm after is the DF SOP if there is one. Which freq is given in Line 2? If it is in this case, the Coy net freq; how is that Tx'd? Are you stating the Freq, USC, Net ID, B/Width etc via Line 2? Maybe just the Net ID, allowing someone in Bde with a catalogue of the nets to ERF/MROAL the Helo before take off?

    This is all assuming we're dealing with just DF aerial assets. Overseas, it's likely to be another country supplying the choppers and all the more reason to apply the KISS principles and use SC Freqs as a standard to avoid any comms incompatibility issues.

    Genuine interest in getting an answer to this question, either on here, via PM or otherwise.
    Last edited by SwiftandSure; 24th July 2014 at 04:17.

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  10. #257
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    Interesting article on the comparison of the varieties of TQ:

    https://www.blacksheepwarrior.com/ho...quets-compare/

  11. #258
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    Excellent small unit battlefield first aid. I Edited this myself from SAS survival secrets.

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  13. #259
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    Found this while looking for something else.

    Tactical Emergency Medicine for Operations: Course run for the DF back in 2011. By civilian contractors. Well done chaps, that's the way to do it. Anyone know if this was a one off or if it is an ongoing thing. Either / or job well done.

    http://remotemedicine.blogspot.co.uk...icine-for.html

    p.s. Sorry if a repost .

    p.p.s. Good little document produced by the RAF for those civilians etc. working with "Rescue" helis. Too big to upload.

    http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafsearchandre...2c43cb3e85.pdf
    Last edited by FMP; 3rd December 2014 at 11:00.
    We travel not for trafficking alone,
    By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
    For lust of knowing what should not be known,
    We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

  14. #260
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMP View Post
    Found this while looking for something else.

    Tactical Emergency Medicine for Operations: Course run for the DF back in 2011. By civilian contractors. Well done chaps, that's the way to do it. Anyone know if this was a one off or if it is an ongoing thing. Either / or job well done.

    http://remotemedicine.blogspot.co.uk...icine-for.html

    p.s. Sorry if a repost .

    p.p.s. Good little document produced by the RAF for those civilians etc. working with "Rescue" helis. Too big to upload.

    http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafsearchandre...2c43cb3e85.pdf
    There have been a number of TCCC courses run by the Med Sch. Not sure if the expertise is in-house now

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  16. #261
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  18. #262
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