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  • Originally posted by SwiftandSure
    Carry in CEFO as a stretcher, or leave in the bergan as part of a basher kit?
    Have to agree with RGJ - Anytime I've ever used them, it was 1 per platoon with the Platoon runner carrying it. The Reserve section were usually the donkeys. It was always part of the platoon equipment and you didn't pack it till you were given it. Then again, it is a while since I used them - training standards have been dropping and it is a long time since I saw an RDF platoon able to deal with PWs and casualties. I remember the PSO Exs early last decade when you had platoons able to deal with everything and operate beside the PDF, usually because they had to. More recently I talked to an assessor on the assessments who said that he would be delighted if the platoons showed up in the right place at the right time. Every year they were told to introduce casualties and PWs but usually shelved the idea fairly quickly because they doubt the platoons have any clue as to how to deal with them and it would just lead to chaos.

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    • On my PNCO Cse we used a normal poncho, 4 men carrying at each corner, worked ok-ish

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      • Originally posted by SwiftandSure
        Mate, I've never seen a stretcher in the RDF. I haven't a clue what type they use. My basher is the BA issued one, and I think I'm the only guy in my unit to own one like it. Most lads in my unit probably aren't aware it has that design feature built in.
        Roughly the length of a roll mat, with 3 openings on each side to allow 6 people to carry it. Although the medics have a gucci fold out one too.

        Really suprised if you haven't seen one knocking about in stores or on Ex.

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        • Originally posted by SwiftandSure
          I have another question chaps....

          Stretchers

          What type of stretchers to the PDF use? Or do you have to improvise?

          I was having a daysack dilemma the other day, where I was mulling over whether or not to pack my basher into my assault pack as part of my CEFO, as it comes with handles on it when folded over to make a 6 handled stretcher. Very handy I thought to have on me, but then, no one else will be doing the same, and it's extra weight on my back when I need to be most manoeuvrable.

          If I were to keep it in the pack, I'd probably find a way to tie the edges together so that when I pull it out, it's ready to go as a stretcher, rather than fúck around folding it in a panic.

          What do ye lads think....?

          Carry in CEFO as a stretcher, or leave in the bergan as part of a basher kit?
          Should be no need to carry your own, there should be one stretcher issued per section (plus one medic bag).
          A number of types of stretchers used.
          Roll mat type, looks just like a roll mat but with a number of carrying handles cut into it.
          Another roll up type is made of a strong waterproof tarp material with 8 web carrying straps.
          Theres also a fold up stretcher thats carried in its own backpack.
          During recruit/2-3* training battle field 1st aid training everyone learns how to make improvised stretchers.

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          • I know the mat, your on about, only every seen it issued for integration by a PDF CQ. He was worried it might get dirty!

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            • Originally posted by Vamp369 View Post
              On my PNCO Cse we used a normal poncho, 4 men carrying at each corner, worked ok-ish


              A poncho is much more versatile than a stretcher.

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              • Originally posted by ARNGScout View Post
                Yes he is, considering it was a double amputation (legs), and the disorientation of the blast itself, it is amazing he managed to stay composed and keep his head straight to be able to direct them. I certainly couldn't have done that - I think I would have lost the plot totally.
                Reminds me of a Master Corporal (section 2ic) in our Regiment who had a leg amputated at thigh level by an IED (I wasn't there, but a good friend of mine was the Coy Sgt-Maj)
                He remained conscious and directed the TCCCs so they wouldn't miss a step, then helped the Medic. He later died of his wounds in a hospital in Canada.

                Our IFAK contains, as a minimum:
                Combat Application Tourniquet x 1
                Combat Gauze x 1
                Israeli bandages x 2
                Gloves x 2 pr

                Our TCCC-qualified Soldiers have a specialized kit.

                In our vehicles, we attach a CAT and israeli bandage on each seat at head level with a zapstrap. We do regular refresher trg on combat FA, even in theater. We use the standard NATO 9-liner. We are a team of 12, and we have a medic attached; we never leave the wire without her.
                "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

                Never give up!!"

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                • Originally posted by fiannoglach View Post
                  Actually, he's RDF.

                  Sandbagger.

                  Weekend warrior.
                  Jesus the way he was going on i thought he was a combat medic.That just makes it worse!

                  Originally posted by fiannoglach View Post
                  But it's going to change Apod, so have a little patience.

                  We survived all these years before Afghanistan and Iraq. Its all down to excellence at the basics.

                  The next major conflict will bring up another set of obstacles and solutions, but the basics will always remain the same.
                  I will mate.If what you and others have posted here about changes to the kit and training come to pass then it will be a major step up in our capabilites.We can only wait and see.
                  "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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                  • Originally posted by fiannoglach View Post
                    Its all down to excellence at the basics.
                    ****, that's something to remember.

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                    • After watching Our War on BBC3 last night, it really hammered home to me, in light of this discussion, the need to square away how we hope to deal with casualties in contact.

                      Everything from winning the firefight to extract the casualty to 1st Aid to 9 liners to rapid deployment of stretchers.

                      The boys learnt the hard way what works with stretcher bearing.

                      I sincerely hope we learn from their mistakes.

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                      • Just saw this, seems pretty cool at 198 grams.


                        http://www.snigeldesign.com/index.ph...ge=%2894%29#28

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                        • Originally posted by SwiftandSure View Post
                          After watching Our War on BBC3 last night, it really hammered home to me, in light of this discussion, the need to square away how we hope to deal with casualties in contact.

                          Everything from winning the firefight to extract the casualty to 1st Aid to 9 liners to rapid deployment of stretchers.

                          The boys learnt the hard way what works with stretcher bearing.

                          I sincerely hope we learn from their mistakes.
                          Absolutely; here are some things we learned over the last few years:

                          - Upon the initial contact, EVERYBODY engages the enemy in order to win the firefight (yes, including the Medics). The wounded are tended to when the situation is under control, not necessarily when the firing stops.

                          - You need at least 2 TCCC qualified Soldiers in every section, and they should be Riflemen or section 2ics. The qual is not recommended for section commanders and above, as they will not deal directly with casualties, unless you are part of a very small team (eg: Recce det, Snipers, FOO/FAC party)

                          - All pers deploying are trained in combat first aid; all can treat combat-related injuries and install a CAT, either on themselves or on someone else

                          - We practice first aid, and rehearse sequence of events on a regular basis, especially in theater. We do refresher trg on a monthly basis, alond with C-IED trg.

                          - Good comms are essential, Soldiers need to be trained in communicating 9-liner and MIST and remain calm

                          - Quick identification and clearing of a LZ is required; you WILL need to sweep it with metal detectors. The firefight MUST be over when the choppers arrive; If you are still in contact, they will turn away.

                          - We use different types of stretchers: full length on camp and some vehs, foldable on smaller vehs, and crazy carpets (plastic roll) on all vehs and for dismounted patrols.

                          Finally, you cannot be overtrained or "too ready" for a major injury far from a medical station. Your team needs to be sorted out.
                          "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

                          Never give up!!"

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                          • Jungle, that's a great post thanks!

                            Mods, could we consider taking some select posts from this thread and sticky them in a "gems of CASEVAC wisdom" somewhere. It would be good to consolidate this information in one place, to save having to search for it. Jungle, Flamingo, R&S among others have posted some absolute pearls of wisdom here.

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                            • Looks like we may have our first sticky
                              "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                              "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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                              • A few more:

                                - If your vehicle has anti-RPG cages (our vehicles do) everything that is attached to them will disappear in an IED strike; we put the stretchers on top of the vehs to avoid losing them in a blast.

                                - If you are a Platoon 2ic or a Coy Sgt-Maj, discuss with your Medic "actions-on" for injuries while dismounted, IED strike on vehicles, what to do if the Medic is injured, setting up the CCP, etc...

                                - You must also be prepared to set up the CCP according to different situations. Our team is small, and we normally travel on our own in 2 TLAVs; a total of 8 to 10 pers, including one Medic and a terp. This means that in the event of an IED strike on one veh, only 2 or 3 pers will dismount (drivers and gunners never dismount). So we established that unless in a really shitty situation (ie: veh is burning), the struck veh will become the CCP and we will establish the LZ as close as possible to it.

                                - WHATEVER HAPPENS, ALWAYS DO YOUR 5s & 20s !!!! Always use metal detectors and PCMs, even if guys are hurt and screaming in a veh. It saves lives.
                                "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

                                Never give up!!"

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