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  • #16
    And 9 liners too

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Hello Alaska View Post
      Completely basic stuff, even a civvie learns it. Not directly taught as Battlefield first aid.
      So your saying no one ever has contusion, laceration, incsision, puncture or gun shot wounds on a battlefield?

      When they start teaching and issuing tourniquets to Infantry troops, I'll consider the above to actually have been something I've been instructed on.

      Just saying "You'll throw a tourniquet on it" or "Put a dressing on it, if it keeps bleeding just throw abouther dressing on it" isn't good enough.
      You dont need a tourniquet to control bleeding the best way is to simply put pressure directly on the wound.

      When troops are taught the above, it's purely meant in a civilian sense and you know it.
      Its not.

      eg.
      Scene safety - is there more IEDs?
      Universal precautions - do I need gloves or a mask to deal with the casualty?
      Mechanism of injury - is he dead? wheres the shrapnel wounds? did he lose a limb?
      Number of casualties - how many in my section are injured? who can still fight
      Need support - is he one lucky ****er or do I need to call a CASEVACREQ?

      Deadly, now what happens when your platoon occupies a building and you've to stabilise casualties that need fluids, have arterial bleeds or whatever else and there's no Medic handy?

      Types of care in the DF sense comes up a bit short.
      Thats for an EMT.
      You dont expect every on in the DF to be a trained EMT do you?


      Electrical burns? Poisons? Unless someone gets a crack of a taser while in contact or someone pisses in the water, that doesn't even remotely come under battlefield first aid. It isn't even taught by medics in a battlefield sense, it's taught in a purely civvie situation sense.
      Electrical equipment is used on the modern battlefield, most buildings even on the battlefield have electricity in them, the enemy may electrify a defencive barricade etc.

      Poisons have been used in wars since World War I.

      That's great but again it's not taught in a battlefield sense nor does a fracture really come under battlefield first aid.
      Bones aren't bullet proof

      Again, CASEVAC drills are basic Infantry skills. They're not somethin taught by medics.
      Yes it is.

      It's not exactly dealing with someone with an erterial bleed is it?
      Even soldiers call 999 and ask for help thats why NATO has the 9 liner and use the 007.

      Taught in a civilian sense, again.
      A soldiers body is no different from a civvies body and CPR is performed in the same way.

      Ok, I can make a stretcher out of two SRAAW's and two smocks.
      or a length of rope, roll mat, basha etc.
      Last edited by Rhodes; 3 May 2011, 22:44.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
        You dont need a tourniquet to control bleeding the best way is to simply put pressure directly on the wound.
        Ehhhh yeah that'll really work with and IED blast when there's traumatic amputations involved.

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        Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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        • #19
          You dont need a tourniquet to control bleeding the best way is to simply put pressure directly on the wound.
          LMFAO ROFL Nice one. You have just stumbled into a mine field and have lost your lower leg.Your buddies cant get to you anytime fast because they are prodding the ground with the bayonets that aren't issued out and marking the safe route with the non existant mine tape.So it now up to you to control the arterial bleeding FAST while you writhe around in agony because you have no morphine and try to put direct pressure on a stump with the one non heamostatic FFD you have been issued.Good Luck with that!

          Poisons have been used in wars since World War I.
          Indeed.And we train for that.Better i might add than we train for Battlefield first aid or trauma management.Oh and the POISONS that H.A is refering too are household poisons.The ones dealt with on the Occupational first aid course.Not chemical weapons.


          A soldiers body is no different from a civvies body and CPR is performed in the same way.
          True indeed,but in battlefield triage their are guidleines to help you decide who you even start CPR on.Those who obviously cant be saved dont have time wated on them when their are those who can.We aren't taught that as all our first aid training is based around a civvy course that our current EMT/paramedics undergo with civvy agencies.

          I have completed two formal occupational first aid courses in my time in the DF and a "first aid" module on every tactical course i have done.They are all geared towards civvy situations and are all very basic.I am NOT issued a CAT or any other Trauma management equipment and neither is any other member of my unit(i'm infantry BTW)nor have i ever been trained (officially) how to use them.The only people who are are the medical corps and the ARW combat medics.(Last time i was in the MOUT facility in the DFTC their was pigs blood and empty Israeli FFD wrappers everywhere.Now thats realistic training!If we open our FFD you cant get a new one without the CO certifying you used it on a live casualty FFS)

          Rhodes while i sincerely applaud your loyalty to the DF, in this case its blind loyalty.Our battlefield first aid training is nowhere near where it should be and neither is our issue of basic trauma kit.I mean FFS we dont even get issued a normal IFAK for everyday medical issues.
          Last edited by apod; 3 May 2011, 23:10.
          "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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          • #20
            Please God don't let it be me that needs BFTC

            Jesus- there is some seriously dangerous ill-informed discussion here!

            Rhodes -have you ever even seen a sugical amputation lety alone a traumatic one ???
            Let me assure you fcuking pressure will NOT be sufficent!!

            Stick to what you know son and don't show the world your lack of knowledge.
            Last edited by Pod; 3 May 2011, 23:15. Reason: spelling

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            • #21
              I give up.

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              • #22
                I'm a bit out of my depth to be discussing emergency trauma treatment with any authority given my limited background, but I would have thought that with today's IED threat, where IEDs are packed to blast out a shed load of shrapnel, it's very possible to incur several traumatic bleeds that would probably require a CAT to be applied sooner than when is typically advised on a civilian 1st Aid course, which is why battlefield first aid is so important.

                From what I understand and from my training many moons ago, soldiers injured in combat are more likely to bleed out quicker given the multitude of wounds inflicted in a short space of time, than a civilian who's had an occupational accident, therefore the priority to identify and stem the heavy bleeding would probably come before an ABC examination. Whereas in Civvy street, an ABC examination is taught to come first. Either way, priorities are different on the battlefield compared to regular civilian occupational hazards.

                If I'm wrong on this, please correct me.

                Personally, I think it's a shame that troops aren't issued basic lifesaving equipment, and that the irony is that someone probably has to die wanting for such equipment, before it's actually issued.

                RGJ, if you're reading this, what's the standard IFAK/Trauma kit that's on issue to regular infantry in BA these days? (EDIT: or R&S or Knocker for that matter...)
                Last edited by SwiftandSure; 4 May 2011, 00:10.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by SwiftandSure View Post
                  From what I understand and from my training many moons ago, soldiers injured in combat are more likely to bleed out quicker given the multitude of wounds inflicted in a short space of time,
                  Correct, the priority for mil casualties is C-ABC
                  Catastrophic Haemhorrage, followed by the usual.

                  Studies have shown that if you can apply a tourniquet, establish an airway and treat a tension pneumothorax (Collapsed lung), you could save 90-100 % of preventable combat deaths.

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                  • #24
                    Catastrophic bleed as a result of a limb amputation apply tourniquet 3 finger widths above point of injury and elevate limb. Date and time on casi forehead.
                    Last edited by rod and serpent; 4 May 2011, 00:35.

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                    • #25
                      Just purchased online. Had been thinking of getting it for a while. Having read of what the plan is for how medics deal with CBA and chest wounds I'm glad I have.

                      To close with and kill the enemy in all weather conditions, night and day and over any terrain

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by HavocIRL View Post
                        Just purchased online. Had been thinking of getting it for a while. Having read of what the plan is for how medics deal with CBA and chest wounds I'm glad I have.

                        http://uktactical.com/acatalog/Intermediate_Kit.html

                        Quick clot no good if you have a shell fish allergy
                        also being phased out.

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                        • #27
                          Talking with Df paramedics very recently on the subject of iv's, intubation etc and they said under phecc they're not allowed do it anymore. Cue very puzzled looks all round
                          "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

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                          • #28
                            I carry on my person
                            Asherman chest seals X 2
                            First fied dressings X3
                            Tourniquets X 2
                            Guidel airway X 2

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by HavocIRL View Post
                              Just purchased online. Had been thinking of getting it for a while. Having read of what the plan is for how medics deal with CBA and chest wounds I'm glad I have.

                              http://uktactical.com/acatalog/Intermediate_Kit.html
                              You're right to really mate. I'd seen that a while back and thought it would be a good investment if you were going overseas.

                              Being only in the RDF, with next to no chance of seeing operational service, I've no real need for it, which is why I wouldn't buy it myself. Instead opting to blagging bits and pieces here and there in the true RDF spirit.

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                              • #30
                                Are Brit medics with plns or are they coy assets?
                                "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

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