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  1. #76
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    The NZDF Defence Capability Plan 2019 has been released:

    https://defence.govt.nz/assets/Uploa...-Plan-2019.pdf

    First up is the replacement of the C-130H and the C-130J-30 has been selected. At this stage no announcement on numbers but likely to be five.

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  3. #77
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    why oh why can we not have something like this.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  5. #78
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    What we would give for a single C130H, let alone replacing it with a J.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  7. #79
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    why oh why can we not have something like this.
    Rhetorical question?
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  8. #80
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    why oh why can we not have something like this.
    In fairness, some of that in very broad strokes is covered. Not all in the public domain.

    But I agree it is very much required.

  9. #81
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    Rhetorical question?
    No - a multiyear capital spending and investment framework across buildings equipment and people that isnt metaphorically worse than chucking coppers at a street beggar
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  11. #82
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    No - a multiyear capital spending and investment framework across buildings equipment and people that isnt metaphorically worse than chucking coppers at a street beggar
    It is there, there is a joint plan at DoD/DF Level that is developed by a joint committee (that I can’t remember the name of.... High Level Procurement something or other). They do the multi annual plan. It isn’t in the public (not sure about wider DF) domain.

    You would see elements of that appear in other internal DF plans on an annual basis.

    The obvious go into the estimates process, with things being prioritised. Now I’m sure DoD don’t let the DF ask for substantially more money in any one year (eg MRV and 2 CPVs)..... and you can be definite that neither does DPER or indeed the Government.

  12. #83
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    The HLPP is set up to oversee the implementation of the white paper. So there may be similarities.

  13. #84
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Oh I know about the process, both of you know I do. My point is if I was a Kiwi with only about 300 deployed overseas and a 1.1% GDP defence spend I'd be happy to get behind that plan.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  15. #85
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo20 View Post
    The HLPP is set up to oversee the implementation of the white paper. So there may be similarities.
    High Level Planning and Procurement Group
    https://www.defence.ie/system/files/...17-english.pdf (Page 9)

    I’ve heard HLIG in relation to the WP.

    Either way though the WP set the strategic procurement priorities for the DF

  16. #86
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Oh I know about the process, both of you know I do. My point is if I was a Kiwi with only about 300 deployed overseas and a 1.1% GDP defence spend I'd be happy to get behind that plan.
    Absolutely look at their budgets for some of those projects

  17. #87
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCzHs0j0pYs&t=302s

    Take a 360° Tour - HMNZS MANAWANUI

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  19. #88
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    The latest edition of NZ Defence and Security sector quarterly magazine Line of Defence is now out.

    https://defsec.net.nz/2019/07/01/winter-2019/

    You can link to a pdf download from there.

    Has some manufacturer/sponsor provided content from Embraer and Leonardo with respect to the KC-390 and the C-27J as well as the MQ-9B Sea Guardian - that may be of some interest in the Irish perspective in terms of future capabilities.

    Further news the NZ Army is also to get around 200 Polaris MRZR and 43 Protected Vehicle Mediums likely to be Bushmasters as that is what the Australians use plus they have a small number already.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-...icles-approved
    Last edited by Anzac; 6th July 2019 at 22:54.

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  21. #89
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    Two to three Type 26 mooted for the RNZN future Anzac frigate replacement.

    https://www.ft.com/content/c1364ce4-...c-ad1c6ab5efd1

    With the RAN, RCN and RN using it does make sense with respect to long term support and sustainability. I have no doubt that whatever is downselected for the USN FFG(X) will also be in the mix.

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  23. #90
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Well. This must be the quickest about face in Uniform pattern and design issue in recent years.(unless you count the Irish DF 2018 ptn DPM Shirt and trousers)

    http://army.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/arm...mbat-force.pdf

    Must be nice to have money to burn.The thing I liked about MCCU was that it was uniquely Kiwi. Multicam is sooooooooo everyone right now.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  24. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Well. This must be the quickest about face in Uniform pattern and design issue in recent years.(unless you count the Irish DF 2018 ptn DPM Shirt and trousers)

    http://army.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/arm...mbat-force.pdf

    Must be nice to have money to burn.The thing I liked about MCCU was that it was uniquely Kiwi. Multicam is sooooooooo everyone right now.
    To be fair it is 7 years since the MCCU was introduced and the manufacturer is ceasing production so rolling replacements are over anyway. Was a good opportunity to make the change as the soldier systems project ramps up.
    The Canadians I understand are going through the evaluation process as well.

  25. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anzac View Post
    To be fair it is 7 years since the MCCU was introduced and the manufacturer is ceasing production so rolling replacements are over anyway. Was a good opportunity to make the change as the soldier systems project ramps up.
    The Canadians I understand are going through the evaluation process as well.
    Its more "Mulitcam inspired" than pure Multicam as well. Placed side by side with Multicam, the difference in colour palette and pattern is pretty obvious.

  26. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anzac View Post
    Two to three Type 26 mooted for the RNZN future Anzac frigate replacement.

    https://www.ft.com/content/c1364ce4-...c-ad1c6ab5efd1

    With the RAN, RCN and RN using it does make sense with respect to long term support and sustainability. I have no doubt that whatever is downselected for the USN FFG(X) will also be in the mix.
    The three variants will be quite different in detail and capability though, with different combat systems, sensors, missile load and weapons fit out. It will be interesting to see which variant NZ would be interested in, the fairly basic RN variant, the top end ADF ships or the Canadian spec which looks to be mid way between the others.

  27. #94
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anzac View Post
    To be fair it is 7 years since the MCCU was introduced and the manufacturer is ceasing production so rolling replacements are over anyway. Was a good opportunity to make the change as the soldier systems project ramps up.
    The Canadians I understand are going through the evaluation process as well.
    7 years.Is that all.Seriously???
    How long did ye have DPM before that??
    We have had IP-DPM since 1999. The Brits had theirs since '66. Even UCP,which was a disaster,has lasted longer.Seems like MCCU was not well thought out and over hyped if ye are changing so quickly.
    And what do you mean the manufacturer is "ceasing production". Is the Business going bust or something?Do ye not own the pattern so ye could get someone else to manufacture it?

    If not,someone need a serious talking to.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  28. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    7 years.Is that all.Seriously???
    How long did ye have DPM before that??
    We have had IP-DPM since 1999. The Brits had theirs since '66. Even UCP,which was a disaster,has lasted longer.Seems like MCCU was not well thought out and over hyped if ye are changing so quickly.
    And what do you mean the manufacturer is "ceasing production". Is the Business going bust or something?Do ye not own the pattern so ye could get someone else to manufacture it?

    If not,someone need a serious talking to.
    The current DefMin is a former Army Officer, a noted MCCU critic in opposition and has thankfully sorted the MCCU mess out noting that 7 years was enough to time in a VfM sense to write off a $13m 2012 acquisition at the earliest date. Army have been trying to dump the MCCU for the last 5 years but were politely told to STFU and get on with it. Yes the pattern is great, but it wore like a cheap hookers dress. Who to blame, well it was a case of the then Govt and Ministry of Defence Acquisitions and Defence Technology Agency going for the cheapest supplier - an Aussie company whom the ADF wouldn't even use (who are exiting a market they should not have been in). I gather that the future multi-cam will retain a Kiwi pattern to distinguish it from the OZ and UK patterns. The durable old locally made DPM by Margraths was around for decades prior to that. Between 2002 and 2012 what little was spent on the NZDF was typically rubbish right from B757's that breakdown (again this week when the PM went to Melbourne) to the Protector vessels, through to the MCCU other than the odd fluke here and there when they (The Ministry and DPM&C) by accident got something right.

  29. #96
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/112...aints-received

    13.6 Million is a HELL of a lot of money to piss up against the wall.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  30. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/112...aints-received

    13.6 Million is a HELL of a lot of money to piss up against the wall.
    They the MinDef pissed up a wall a hell of a lot more than that back in the Noughties. A veritable roll call of stupidity.

  31. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    7 years.Is that all.Seriously???
    How long did ye have DPM before that??
    We have had IP-DPM since 1999. The Brits had theirs since '66. Even UCP,which was a disaster,has lasted longer.Seems like MCCU was not well thought out and over hyped if ye are changing so quickly.
    And what do you mean the manufacturer is "ceasing production". Is the Business going bust or something?Do ye not own the pattern so ye could get someone else to manufacture it?

    If not,someone need a serious talking to.
    The DPM the brits wear today bears no resemblance whatsoever to what was being worn in 66. There has been many variations along the way.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  32. #99
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    The DPM the brits wear today bears no resemblance whatsoever to what was being worn in 66. There has been many variations along the way.
    The Brits don't wear DPM today BTW, and the pattern stayed mainly the same.Just different shades depending on the material it was printed on,manufacturers etc.
    Similar to the differences with our own kit. '99 Pattern IP-DPM looked different depending if you were issued Portwest or Seyntex manufactured kit.And 2010 Cooneen kit looks different to today's Seyntex stuff
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  34. #100
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    I'll have to disagree with you there. Early dpm was a jacket identical to the old og square pocket jackets we had. The pattern was vaguely camouflaged. There was a major change of colour and pattern in the late 80s, and the colours have evolved since, numerous times, based on experience overseas.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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