Air Corps air ambulance

[na grohmití]

Does anyone know how often the 2 EC135s from the GASU are used for air ambulance?

Never. Not equipped or staffed to handle casualties.

[DeV]

No but
why did we need 8 alouettes?
who and why was it decided that half as many airframes was enough to replace them?

why did we need 4 dauphins?
who and why was it decided that half as many airframes was enough to replace them?

why did we need 6 light strike jets and 7 trainer aircraft ?
who and why was it decided 8 airframes was enough to replace 13 and thus remove our jet capability?

Answer to all of the above is to do with the dept of finance and a limp wristed left leaning pile of backward looking govts, who've never taken defence seriously. Sadly I sometimes think that the worst thing that ever happened in this country was NOT being in a war post independence, it may have been the only way we would've taken it with more than a pinch of salt.

The following is an actual underlying train of thought that runs through most citizens / politicians brains.
We're Irish, we love a pint and the craic and having a dance and a giggle and sure everyone loves us, were great and we dont even need an army as were loved so much.

You are forgetting that 4 x S92s should have been in the mix as well.

The idea was that the Gazelles, Alouettes and Dauphins were supposed to be all replaced with a single type. “Squirrel type” was mentioned in order to get commonality with the relatively new(at the time) GASU Squirrel. As we know the Squirrel was replaced by the EC135 in GASU service.

Why 8 Alouettes? Detachment at Finner, detachment at Monaghan and SAR.

Why 5 Dauphins? SAR detachment (1 at various places), 2 for the NS HPVs.

Everything else was spare capacity for VIP, army co-op, air ambulance, etc etc etc.

Why were those figures chosen? Probably something to do with having a min amount available at one time

The decision on replacing the Warriors and Fougas with a single type was based on 1 higher performance aircraft type being capable of doing basic and advanced training. The fleet size would have been based on have x amount available.

It is saving money of course it is. But there is also method in the madness.

Look at when these decisions were made. Post GFA.

Also every additional aircraft type reduced the pool of pilots and techs to work on them.

Is it ideal no but as far as I’m concerned the fewer types the better.

[Brian McGrath]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

AIRCORPS112 operating as ALPHA WHISKEY 274 conducting Night Vision Landings at UH Galway on Tuesday last week.

Picture:David McGrath

[Rhodes]

..

[Claudel Hopson]

No words needed. Great job by all and so well carried out.

[DeV]

More resources needed for 24/7
http://www.shannonside.ie/news/local...-new-training/

[DeV]

Recent HIQA report on P1 transplant transfers to UK
https://www.hiqa.ie/sites/default/fi...TA-Nov2017.pdf

Long term recommendations additional IRCG aircraft or GASU-type AC op



Short term night P1 air ambulance missions is now contracted out to Capital Air Ambulance UK
https://flyinginireland.com/2018/01/...ance-contract/

[DeV]

4 years old now at this stage
http://health.gov.ie/wp-content/uplo...-watermark.pdf

[DeV]

According to Denis Naughton on RTE this morning, the Cabinet decided yesterday (as part of the Trauma plan) to provide a 2nd air ambulance for the South of the country

[morpheus]

wonder is this good or bad for the air corps?

[X-RayOne]

already one in south........might see Gov investment to formalise it. But won't be surprised if the wheel has to be re-invented as usual.

http://communityairambulance.ie/

[DeV]

already one in south........might see Gov investment to formalise it. But won't be surprised if the wheel has to be re-invented as usual.

http://communityairambulance.ie/

One that doesn’t operate

[ropebag]

wonder is this good or bad for the air corps?

It's good for people who want a career working for commercial aviation providers and to have a short commute into work from their homes on the outskirts of a bustling city, but bad news for the air mobility arm of a military force.

Of course, the AC is only there to service one of those functions...

[Rhodes]

..

[Graylion]

I prefer the Cork air ambulance that is a private venture. They have basically ICU equipment on board and a doctore flying weith them. This is the wasy to do it. Together with IFR. My suggestion would be to take the 139s and convert them to propeer ambulance choppers, give the pilots night vision goggles so they can operate as close to 24/7 as possible. We'll also need them to transfer patients much more with the plan to have a few specialised trauma centers in the country.

This sounds like a good use for them. Then buy some real military choppers.

[Anzac]

I prefer the Cork air ambulance that is a private venture. They have basically ICU equipment on board and a doctore flying weith them. This is the wasy to do it. Together with IFR. My suggestion would be to take the 139s and convert them to propeer ambulance choppers, give the pilots night vision goggles so they can operate as close to 24/7 as possible. We'll also need them to transfer patients much more with the plan to have a few specialised trauma centers in the country.

This sounds like a good use for them. Then buy some real military choppers.

Does that Cork medevac helicopter service operate as a charitable trust with corporate sponsorship or a corporate outfit set up as a service provider? Down under both the charitable trust approach and service provider model are the common governance model for medevac services.

Kind of related to this and of possible interest is that last year Starflight one of the OZ aviation service providers who does medevac and firefighting will soon operate ten refurbished and zero-houred ex US Army UH-60's with an option for another ten.

https://www.lockheedmartin.com.au/au.../28072017.html

[DeV]

I prefer the Cork air ambulance that is a private venture. They have basically ICU equipment on board and a doctore flying weith them. This is the wasy to do it. Together with IFR. My suggestion would be to take the 139s and convert them to propeer ambulance choppers, give the pilots night vision goggles so they can operate as close to 24/7 as possible. We'll also need them to transfer patients much more with the plan to have a few specialised trauma centers in the country.

This sounds like a good use for them. Then buy some real military choppers.

Does that Cork medevac helicopter service operate as a charitable trust with corporate sponsorship or a corporate outfit set up as a service provider? Down under both the charitable trust approach and service provider model are the common governance model for medevac services.

Kind of related to this and of possible interest is that last year Starflight one of the OZ aviation service providers who does medevac and firefighting will soon operate ten refurbished and zero-houred ex US Army UH-60's with an option for another ten.

https://www.lockheedmartin.com.au/au.../28072017.html

My understanding of ICAA is that it is a charitable organisation purely charity funded (no corporate sponsor). They need to raise €1M to get it off the ground and €2M annually to run the service with a EC135.

Once the Lifeport system and equipment is in a AW139 it has (AFAIK) every it needs. I agree a trauma doctor (and AC AP/crewman) would be a big advantage.

The pilots already have NVG and are trained in their use.

Why is EAS daylight only?
(a) the AC probably doesn’t have enough pilots to do it 24/7
(b) much more importantly, HEMS type work such as this is the most dangerous type of (civvy) flying possible, doing it at night increases the risk massively.

If any HEMS service was to do 24/7 they will only ever do it to preselected lit HLZs.

Blackhawks cost roughly double that of a AW139

[Graylion]

If any HEMS service was to do 24/7 they will only ever do it to preselected lit HLZs.

For transports from regular hospitals to traume centres that would do just fine

much more importantly, HEMS type work such as this is the most dangerous type of (civvy) flying possible, doing it at night increases the risk massively.

one would assume that military personnel should be able to handle dangerous flying and be able to command resources that are not availab;le to civvies? A FLIR pod on the chopper migfht help for instance?

[Graylion]

oh and not a trauma doc. An anaestesiologist. Emergency doctors are in the busniess of keeping patients alive, not operating on the spot

[DeV]

For transports from regular hospitals to traume centres that would do just fine



one would assume that military personnel should be able to handle dangerous flying and be able to command resources that are not availab;le to civvies? A FLIR pod on the chopper migfht help for instance?

oh and not a trauma doc. An anaestesiologist. Emergency doctors are in the busniess of keeping patients alive, not operating on the spot

http://www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/fil...2013-004_0.pdf

Have a look at the AAIU report

Hardly any hospitals in this country have their own (proper) helipad - it is normally a nearby airport, park or sports pitch that is utilised. The AW139 has access to FLIR and NVG but NVG at least create depth perception issues and neither will help you see things like wires.

Just because they are military personnel doesn’t mean they are immune to risk, danger or error. Even if they are the civvy doctor/AP, the patient, the people around the HLZ most certainly aren’t.

You look at the risks, you assess them, you see what you can do to mitigate them and if it’s still to risky - you don’t do it. We are talking about min 4 people on the helo excluding patient - you don’t risk life unnecessarily.

Generally doctors used on HEMS flights have 1 of 3/4 specialities (I can’t remember the others), different organisations do it differently

[Graylion]

http://www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/fil...2013-004_0.pdf

Have a look at the AAIU report

I will, thanks

Hardly any hospitals in this country have their own (proper) helipad.

Yup, this should be changed at the same time, so there is a reasonable network and an ambulance for instance can pick up a patient at night and proceed to the nearest helipad with hospital. Primary care given in ambulance (which also should have a doctor) and local hospital until chopper arrives.

[DeV]

I will, thanks




Yup, this should be changed at the same time, so there is a reasonable network and an ambulance for instance can pick up a patient at night and proceed to the nearest helipad with hospital. Primary care given in ambulance (which also should have a doctor) and local hospital until chopper arrives.

There isn’t enough doctors in hospitals.

NAS needs more APs. Paramedics and APs need to be able to refer and discharge patients within their capabilities

I like the ICRR model (although it isn’t really fair to rely on good will). I would tend to agree that maybe there should be an AC crewman(AP) and a doctor on EAS

[DeV]

Only 4 of the countries model 4 hospitals have helipads (2 of them have unrestricted access for IRCG S92s), only 1 operational helipad on campus in Dublin and only 1 helipad in the country that has direct access to A&E

[Graylion]

Only 4 of the countries model 4 hospitals have helipads (2 of them have unrestricted access for IRCG S92s), only 1 operational helipad on campus in Dublin and only 1 helipad in the country that has direct access to A&E

To be fixed then.

[Graylion]

would that mean that should the IAC get this role, it is going to paint its existing helis luminous yellow and use them for air ambulance from now on or that they will get a new fleet of air ambulance choppers?

with the reduction to a few major trauma centers in the country I'd be very much in favour. Use the 139s for that and buy some proper military choppers.