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  • The establishment as far as I’ve seen isn’t set up for it.

    ATC isn’t 24/7 anymore due to lack of personnel

    I very much doubt when you have half the amount of techs (someone of whom could be trainees) that a shift system can be run effectively

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    • How many other countries in Europe use their dedicated military air arm to complete this role?

      I don't know the answer but when I read this the first thing I thought was is this Air Corps business?
      'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

      Comment


      • Originally posted by spider View Post
        How many other countries in Europe use their dedicated military air arm to complete this role? ...
        The AC isn't a military air arm, it's the direct labour organisation with aeroplanes...

        That's not a dig, or a piss take, or a rhetorical flourish - look at the list of what the AC does, then ask yourself what tasks get prioritised and what tasks get bumped off when an aircraft goes tech or a crew is off sick?

        How often do civilian tasks - air ambulance, fisheries, bog watching and whatever other bollocks task - get binned so that aircraft can support an Army or NS exercise?

        That's a deliberate policy and a culture formed by that long running policy - Government sets that policy following DOD advice, but the AC is no innocent victim: how many former senior officers, whether AC or Army or NS, go public with criticism about the squandering of these resources on 'parish pump' tasks and how that impacts the efficiency and effectiveness of the DF and it's duty to protect the state?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
          The AC isn't a military air arm, it's the direct labour organisation with aeroplanes...

          That's not a dig, or a piss take, or a rhetorical flourish - look at the list of what the AC does, then ask yourself what tasks get prioritised and what tasks get bumped off when an aircraft goes tech or a crew is off sick?

          How often do civilian tasks - air ambulance, fisheries, bog watching and whatever other bollocks task - get binned so that aircraft can support an Army or NS exercise?

          That's a deliberate policy and a culture formed by that long running policy - Government sets that policy following DOD advice, but the AC is no innocent victim: how many former senior officers, whether AC or Army or NS, go public with criticism about the squandering of these resources on 'parish pump' tasks and how that impacts the efficiency and effectiveness of the DF and it's duty to protect the state?
          What a load of rubbish and a insult to the aviation arm of the state. In case you haven't been paying attention recently the DF inc the AC is on its knees. Huge HR problems, ineffective funding, a clueless DoD, a nice but ineffective CoS means that the DF and in this case the AC is struggling to meet its commitments.
          However despite this, it can and it DOES come up trumps even though it's stretched and I hope will continue to prioritise a life saving air amb or HEMS over an army or NS EXERCISE!

          Comment


          • The current CoS was not CoS when the Air Corps replaced 14 helicopters with 8. Nor was he CoS when the MLH contract went tits up due to political interference. Like Ropebag said how many Former CoS, DCoS (one of whom was AC) or GOCs have gone public about the problems in the IAC and the wider DF.
            It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
            It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
            It was a new age...It was the end of history.
            It was the year everything changed.

            Comment


            • One recent GoC AC was just happy to keep MATS going. Unsurprisingly he was an ex MATS pilot.
              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by CTU View Post
                The current CoS was not CoS when the Air Corps replaced 14 helicopters with 8. Nor was he CoS when the MLH contract went tits up due to political interference. Like Ropebag said how many Former CoS, DCoS (one of whom was AC) or GOCs have gone public about the problems in the IAC and the wider DF.
                8 must more capable more modern cheaper & easier to maintain aircraft

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                  8 must more capable more modern cheaper & easier to maintain aircraft
                  Please don't fall for that political BS excuse for cost cutting, Its the same excuse the MoD are using with the Royal Navy. If they are cheaper and easer to maintain then the ones they replaced then why didn't they replace like for like, instead they just replace the alouette with 4 AW139s the Dauphins with 2 AW139s and the gazelles with 2 EC135, and still expect them to do the same amount of missions.
                  It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
                  It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
                  It was a new age...It was the end of history.
                  It was the year everything changed.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by CTU View Post
                    Please don't fall for that political BS excuse for cost cutting, Its the same excuse the MoD are using with the Royal Navy. If they are cheaper and easer to maintain then the ones they replaced then why didn't they replace like for like, instead they just replace the alouette with 4 AW139s the Dauphins with 2 AW139s and the gazelles with 2 EC135, and still expect them to do the same amount of missions.
                    More capable obviously of course means more expensive. There is a difference in numbers I won’t argue with you

                    Do you seriously think that the Gazelle and Alouette were as capable as the EC135 or the Dauphin as capable as the AW139

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      More capable obviously of course means more expensive. There is a difference in numbers I won’t argue with you

                      Do you seriously think that the Gazelle and Alouette were as capable as the EC135 or the Dauphin as capable as the AW139
                      No, but in the battle that is Finance Vs Operations Vs Resources, It doesn't matter how powerfull you think your friends in high places are, money talks - merit walks.
                      It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
                      It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
                      It was a new age...It was the end of history.
                      It was the year everything changed.

                      Comment


                      • Does anyone know how often the 2 EC135s from the GASU are used for air ambulance?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                          Does anyone know how often the 2 EC135s from the GASU are used for air ambulance?
                          Never AFAIK

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            More capable obviously of course means more expensive. There is a difference in numbers I won’t argue with you

                            Do you seriously think that the Gazelle and Alouette were as capable as the EC135 or the Dauphin as capable as the AW139
                            No but
                            why did we need 8 alouettes?
                            who and why was it decided that half as many airframes was enough to replace them?

                            why did we need 4 dauphins?
                            who and why was it decided that half as many airframes was enough to replace them?

                            why did we need 6 light strike jets and 7 trainer aircraft ?
                            who and why was it decided 8 airframes was enough to replace 13 and thus remove our jet capability?

                            Answer to all of the above is to do with the dept of finance and a limp wristed left leaning pile of backward looking govts, who've never taken defence seriously. Sadly I sometimes think that the worst thing that ever happened in this country was NOT being in a war post independence, it may have been the only way we would've taken it with more than a pinch of salt.

                            The following is an actual underlying train of thought that runs through most citizens / politicians brains.
                            We're Irish, we love a pint and the craic and having a dance and a giggle and sure everyone loves us, were great and we dont even need an army as were loved so much.
                            "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                            "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by CTU View Post
                              Please don't fall for that political BS excuse for cost cutting, Its the same excuse the MoD are using with the Royal Navy. If they are cheaper and easer to maintain then the ones they replaced then why didn't they replace like for like, instead they just replace the alouette with 4 AW139s the Dauphins with 2 AW139s and the gazelles with 2 EC135, and still expect them to do the same amount of missions.
                              Never the intention to replace like for like as the budget was only around €100 million and as usual things had come to crisis point with the whole helicopter fleet needing replacement. Similar issues exist in other air arms in terms of cost/benefit. There may not be as many RAF fast jet Sqns any more but the Typhoon and JSF will have a much greater capability. The 135/139 fleet was and is capable of delivering far in excess of what all the previous types put together could do providing of course it could retain the experience to pilot, crew and maintain them!!!! It also gave the AC the option to add additional airframes through attrition or operational requirements.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by CTU View Post
                                The current CoS was not CoS when the Air Corps replaced 14 helicopters with 8. Nor was he CoS when the MLH contract went tits up due to political interference. Like Ropebag said how many Former CoS, DCoS (one of whom was AC) or GOCs have gone public about the problems in the IAC and the wider DF.
                                The current CoS went on Primetime recently to say everything was essentially rosy when 600 of his troops were quietly pparticipating in a UL study to effectively say things were coming apart at the seams! Current and former Chiefs and GOCs will not speak out because apart from the cultural thing, the new breed is not thinking of retiring just yet. The only guy I can think of in recent times who ruffled some feathers was the former GOC W but he didn't get much support from former colleagues.

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