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  • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
    CHC do not carry out any such role at night, they can claim they do and label it as such but they don't. It takes CHC aircraft 45 minutes to get airborne at night, they do not have a AP on board, they will not land at unprepared landing sites, they will not land on soft ground, they will not land on sloped ground, they do not have NVG/NVIS.
    They will only land on pre designated floodlit hard flat sites after waiting for land based staff to drive to a landing site to check the ground before landing. That is not EAS or HEMS.
    Rhodes, I asked 2 question of you. You either can't or don't want to answer, fair enough. You have come back with a reply to muddy the waters, so I will clarify.

    The IRCG do. They are NAC taskings, so they are not SAR. They are not Airport to Airport so they are not Air Ambulance flights. That leaves.....HEMS.
    Some of the bases are on 15 min readiness up until 21:00/22:00, a large part of darkness during the winter period. When the casualty is picked up it is usually with a Doctor or advanced paramedic.
    I mentioned the IRCG have no NVG's, hence "with restriction" to approved site for the moment.
    The 92 will land on slopes, soft, uneven ground as I corrected you on before, and also crews use the same sites available to the IAC "the red circle ones" available to both services on a certain web site.


    I have added the link below for you as it mentions IRCG HEMS

    Last edited by Helihead; 14 June 2015, 11:40.

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    • Originally posted by Pure Hover View Post
      Hi HH, yes just to confirm its not alright in IMHO to take SAR assets off station when the EAS/HEMS is available.
      Thats were you and me will disagree PH with all due respect. I still believe that the closest available asset should be used, how ever that may be. Otherwise it defeats the whole purpose, does it not ?

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      • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
        Really?? This person disagrees with you

        http://emergency-services.ie/wp-cont...st-Guard-5.pdf
        That just confirms everything I've said.

        Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
        Aircraft deployed to Lebanon for UNIFIL are there by the grace of the Israelis,not the Lebanese Govt. They have objected to any attempt to increase the aircraft quantity and role and are aided and abetted by the US at the UN in New York. They have suppressed the Lebanese Air Force so it is essentially non-effective and they dominate the skies so why would any UNIFIL contributor bring aircraft of their own?
        The number of UNIFIL aircraft has increased and decreased over the years, all depending on what the mission requires. The Italians are more than happy with providing what is currently needed.

        Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
        in any thread re Air Ambo CHC/IRCG supporters spring out of the woodwork without even CHC being mentioned.
        The bitter axe grinding is very evident.

        Originally posted by Helihead View Post
        Rhodes, I asked 2 question of you. You either can't or don't want to answer, fair enough. You have come back with a reply to muddy the waters, so I will clarify.
        I've already explained it and there is no manpower issues as you claim and no one has said there is.

        Originally posted by Helihead View Post
        I still believe that the closest available asset should be used, how ever that may be. Otherwise it defeats the whole purpose, does it not ?
        The whole purpose of the EAS is to get airborne as fast as possible, get to the casualty as fast as possible, land as close as possible to the casualty, continue treating the casualty to the best level in flight as possible, get the casualty to hospital as fast as possible.
        In the 45 minutes it takes a CHC helicopter to get in the air at night a helicopter could fly half the length of Ireland.

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        • Of course, the elephant in the room is that after devoting the whole resources of the Air Corps to getting the casualty to A&E as quickly as possible, they will then be lying on a trolley in that A&E department for an indeterminate number of hours...
          'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
          'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
          Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
          He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
          http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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          • Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
            Of course, the elephant in the room is that after devoting the whole resources of the Air Corps to getting the casualty to A&E as quickly as possible, they will then be lying on a trolley in that A&E department for an indeterminate number of hours...
            Not in Galway, the have a dedicated unit seperate to the A & E unit with staff ready to operate on a patient as soon as they arrive in, huge number of patients owe their live to these Doctors, Medevac 112 and the HSE crews

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            • Originally posted by Helihead View Post
              Dev, this is what you said. That is pretty much black and white. By the way Dev, nobody in their right ming would want to be going into and ad hoc site at night where HEMS is concerned. I don't believe that is carried out anywhere in Europe. And as Gone to the canner has said The accident rate in the US has gone out through the roof. If the IAC do decide to go down the night EAS route, well they too would be better sticking to approved surveyed sites, NVG's or no NVG's.
              I don't know how many of those vancanies are pilots, techs, store men, admin, cooks and for that reason I pointed out that some AC ranks are at critical levels. I don't know if these vacancies are preventing ops.

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              • Originally posted by Brian McGrath View Post
                Not in Galway, the have a dedicated unit seperate to the A & E unit with staff ready to operate on a patient as soon as they arrive in, huge number of patients owe their live to these Doctors, Medevac 112 and the HSE crews
                Correct Brian but only for STEMI's. Non cardiac patients still go into ED.

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                • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post

                  The whole purpose of the EAS is to get airborne as fast as possible, get to the casualty as fast as possible, land as close as possible to the casualty, continue treating the casualty to the best level in flight as possible, get the casualty to hospital as fast as possible.
                  In the 45 minutes it takes a CHC helicopter to get in the air at night a helicopter could fly half the length of Ireland.
                  Between 2100/2200 and 0730/0830 (depending on the base) IRCG SAR helicopter crews are on 45 min notice. That's 4 aircraft on 45 min notice. What is the hrs of the M112 operation in Athlone? It's nowhere near the 13+ hrs of immediate readiness x 4 with the CG.
                  What's the standby for the only aircraft on standby in Bal again? How long does it take to get airborne and across to the west of the country? You are right Rhodes, a helicopter from bal would be half way across the country, but the SAR machine will be on the way to Dublin (sample destination) with the patient on board.
                  I'm not slating the service provided by IAC, it's just geography.
                  I like all crews both M112 and the CG crews have patient care as the most important thing in all of this but the fact is the athlone based machine gets sent to patients all over the country. Some of these patients would be in hospitals quicker if the nearsest CG SAR aircraft was sent. That's nothing to do with the guys in Athlone, it's just simple geography. These are facts.
                  There is a lot of ignorance here in relation to what the capabilities of both services are and I couldn't be arsed getting into it with some axe grinder that doesn't want to know facts.
                  On the manpower front, I've no idea what the state of manpower is in bal, I know a lot of people that have left to take up jobs in the Middle East, that's always been the case, people will always leave. It shouldn't affect the operation if recruitment is kept up.
                  Last edited by Meatbomb; 14 June 2015, 22:04.

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                  • it would seem to me, that a contract for 500m for SAR, should do SAR, and not get tasked with Air Amb. If it does, it would seem to me that these people are looking to expand their role. If they are expanding their role, using assets that are for SAR, seems to me that they were over paid.

                    As for the AC doing stuff, Who provides what on an Overseas mission, is done on a biding process, and what is deemed necessary.
                    Last edited by jack08; 14 June 2015, 22:49.

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                    • Originally posted by jack08 View Post
                      it would seem to me, that a contract for 500m for SAR, should do SAR, and not get tasked with Air Amb. If it does, it would seem to me that these people are looking to expand their role. If they are expanding their role, using assets that are for SAR, seems to me that they were over paid.

                      As for the AC doing stuff, Who provides what on an Overseas mission, is done on a biding process, and what is deemed necessary.
                      You could have been right in thinking that but it is a SAR and HEMS contract. The 4 CG bases are 24/7/365 SAR and HEMS bases. The article linked further up this page gives a good explanation.

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                      • It's undeniable that the IRCG are now doing HEMS but why wasn't it mentioned in the contract signing press release issued in 2010 .... The problem is the DOD don't want the AC doing the EAS whilst the IRCG and CHC want to be ambitious and expand their service to no doubt guarantee a contract renewal , and good luck to them. Pasted the full press release below for reference ,

                        " New Irish Search and Rescue Contract Signed
                        (Sep 20, 2010)
                        CHC Helicopter has been awarded a 10-year, €500 million contract to provide Search and Rescue (SAR) services on behalf of the Irish Coast Guard. Ireland's Minister for Transport, Noel Dempsey, will join senior representatives from the Irish Coast Guard and CHC Ireland to officially sign the contract later today.

                        The contract will provide SAR services from bases at Waterford, Dublin, Shannon and Sligo from 2012 onwards. CHC already provides SAR services from these bases but the new contract will see the existing fleet of S-61N aircraft replaced with newer Sikorsky S-92A helicopters that are custom fitted for SAR work.

                        "The Irish Coast Guard provides a diverse range of maritime and land-based SAR activities, ranging from national emergency situations such as the recent flooding seen in Ireland last winter to medevac from our Islands, mountains, fishing vessels and incidents involving leisure activity," said Irish Coast Guard Director Chris Reynolds. "It is essential we have the right stepped increase in capabilities going forward for the next decade. We are very confident in selecting CHC Helicopter that our decision will continue to deliver excellence, providing the most efficient and effective SAR service for Ireland."

                        The Irish contract cements CHC Helicopter's position as a world leader in provision of civilian SAR services. In addition to the service already provided in Ireland, CHC currently provides SAR coverage in Australia and the UK, and through its membership in the Soteria consortium, has been identified as the preferred bidder on the UK SAR-H program, a 25-year contract to provide helicopter-based SAR services from 12 bases throughout the UK.

                        "CHC is internationally recognised as a provider of effective SAR solutions to customers worldwide. In today's very challenging environment, we offer the most efficient, reliable and effective services using industry leading technology," said Tilmann Gabriel, chairman of CHC Ireland and president of CHC Helicopter's European Operations.

                        Mark Kelly, Managing Director of CHC Ireland, added that Irish citizens could now expect to see many positive changes arise.

                        "Over the next decade this contract will offer a number of service improvements including the ability to deliver a paramedic to any SAR incident within an hour anywhere on our coastline, ensuring much faster treatment of casualties," he said.

                        CHC is the world's largest operator of the Sikorsky S-92 helicopter that has a long and distinguished pedigree in SAR operations. There are currently more than 100 S-92 helicopters in operation around the world with a fleet total approaching 250,000 flight-hours.

                        The state-of-the-art twin-engine aircraft will be specially equipped for SAR operations and capable of flying faster and farther than aircraft currently in use.

                        As well as longer range and improved cruising speeds, the S-92s will be equipped with enhanced rescue mission technology including infra-red and low light cameras, a Nightsun searchlight, a satellite communications system featuring a Flight Following tracking facility, and high speed dual hoists."

                        Comment


                        • JBM, the following was issued in 2009.
                          Please see link: http://euroalert.net/en/contracts.aspx?idl=285991

                          In particular "The IRCG currently operates a Search & Rescue (SAR) Service comprising medium load helicopters operated by a contractor from four bases at a readiness of 15 minutes by day and 45 minutes by night. The IRCG is seeking a successor contract, including aircrew, maintenance personnel and support services and facilities, to provide a broadly similar level of service, which may however involve a change of current bases, availability or number of aircraft, using more modern helicopters with a national search and rescue role. The new service will cover the Irish Exclusive Economic Zone and elsewhere within the capabilities of the aircraft as directed by the IRCG. The service provider and all aspects of the service provided must comply with relevant aspects of HEMS, maritime SAR and commercial transport requirements of EASA and the Irish Aviation Authority."

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                          • Originally posted by Helihead View Post
                            Thats were you and me will disagree PH with all due respect. I still believe that the closest available asset should be used, how ever that may be. Otherwise it defeats the whole purpose, does it not ?
                            Well I'm glad you brought that up HH as it seems apart from our difference of opinion the NAS think differently too and elect to send their dedicated service more often than not. When the EAS is available it should be sent first and the IRCG aircraft should NOT be taken off station as that was what they were bought for first and foremost with a capability to do HEMS and NOT as a dedicated SAR/HEMS service as some posters here would have you believe.

                            In addition increased HEMS missions by the IRCG beyond a certain threshold carry additional costs for the NAS or Gov't adding to the massive cost of running a SAR service which is understandably trying to scoop up as much work as possible and justify it's existence too.

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                            • Fact: the Don is shedding tech and pilot manpower like rainwater,the two trades that require the most training. Recruitment is not keeping up. Even CHC sheds manpower from time to time. It's not all roses over there either...

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                              • Originally posted by Jack Booted Man View Post
                                It's undeniable that the IRCG are now doing HEMS but why wasn't it mentioned in the contract signing press release issued in 2010 ....
                                My understanding is it wasn't. But Certain people started putting it about how expensive the contract was rightly or wrongly. So the powers that be decided they wanted a bit more bang for their buck, end result HEMS added on. The people making the decisions went "great". We are where we are.
                                Last edited by Helihead; 15 June 2015, 15:21.

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