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  1. #1
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    Air Corps air ambulance

    Three air ambulance missions today.

    Air Corps complete first three air ambulances of 2012 today. One patient to UK by learjet , one patient from UK by Casa and one patient from Tralee to Dublin by AW 139 Heli using night vision goggles. 71 missions completed in 2011.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodes View Post
    Three air ambulance missions today.
    The use by AC of NVG is unique to them,no sign of civv SARs having this capability.

  3. #3
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    Are they a requirement for carrying out air ambulance flights?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helihead View Post
    Are they a requirement for carrying out air ambulance flights?
    Shouldnt be.

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Depends where they are operating!

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    How did the IAC manage in relation to air ambulance before the introduction of NVG's ? Question being asked in relation to post number 2.
    Last edited by Helihead; 7th January 2012 at 09:02.

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    Presume they just got on with the op and have lately invested in extra technology as it became available,just like eg RNLI going out to sea before Radar,Gps etc became available.

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helihead View Post
    How did the IAC manage in relation to air ambulance before the introduction of NVG's ? Question being asked in relation to post number 2.
    Not sure about air ambulance but if I remember the list of SAR kit in DH248 correctly, it included handheld NVE.

  9. #9
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    NVG are a great piece of kit. Great for army night ops low level in the hills doing army stuff.But that does not create PR for the AC. However the PR that the AC put on them is a bit glossy. The question that shoud be asked is would these mission happen without the use of NVG. Of course they would. Dauphins ran up and down the country at night for years. NVG are not the be all and end all of over land night ops as they are not really worth a whole lot in over land icing conditions.
    Does the AW 139 have icing clearance?

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    Quote Originally Posted by billybob View Post
    NVG are a great piece of kit. Great for army night ops low level in the hills doing army stuff.But that does not create PR for the AC. However the PR that the AC put on them is a bit glossy. The question that shoud be asked is would these mission happen without the use of NVG. Of course they would. Dauphins ran up and down the country at night for years. NVG are not the be all and end all of over land night ops as they are not really worth a whole lot in over land icing conditions.
    Does the AW 139 have icing clearance?
    I would have to disagree with some of the points made. Using NVGs, i assume, would allow a crew to fly in more marginal weather than when not using them. Im sure that most missions could be flown without them but it is that one mission where the weather is below limits for normal flying that will make the difference. Plus im sure you can see and avoid clouds as well as mountains!!!

    Also any equipment that makes the flight safer is a bonus as long as it too is used properly. It's good to see a new military skill being used to good affect. I wonder if the special forces guys are flying around hanging out the side in the pitch black.

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    Quote Originally Posted by balkanhawk View Post
    I would have to disagree with some of the points made. Using NVGs, i assume, would allow a crew to fly in more marginal weather than when not using them. Im sure that most missions could be flown without them but it is that one mission where the weather is below limits for normal flying that will make the difference. Plus im sure you can see and avoid clouds as well as mountains!!!

    Also any equipment that makes the flight safer is a bonus as long as it too is used properly. It's good to see a new military skill being used to good affect. I wonder if the special forces guys are flying around hanging out the side in the pitch black.
    Interesting.

  12. #12
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Do SAR heli crews use NVE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Do SAR heli crews use NVE?
    NVG were not used on any of the 550 taskings carried out by IRCG heli crews last year.

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    I would have to disagree with some of the points made. Using NVGs, i assume, would allow a crew to fly in more marginal weather than when not using them. Im sure that most missions could be flown without them but it is that one mission where the weather is below limits for normal flying that will make the difference. Plus im sure you can see and avoid clouds as well as mountains!!!

    Also any equipment that makes the flight safer is a bonus as long as it too is used properly. It's good to see a new military skill being used to good affect. I wonder if the special forces guys are flying around hanging out the side in the pitch black
    NVE operations shouldn't lower your weather limits, to do so is asking for an accident. The difference with NVE is that you can transit and take off and land visually without the requirement for non ambient lighting. NVE are about seeing in the dark, not seeing through weather, if they were they would be called WVE. Further to that a huge proportion of NVE related accidents have been caused by inadvertent and immediate IMC followed by a loss of control / situational awareness due to the very fast change from visual to instrument flight, particularly if it happens while the aircraft is maneuvering (turning etc). The fact that NVE can see through thin layers of mist / cloud has bitten many crews in the past because it can lead to complacency and push on itis leading to immediate loss of visuals rather then the steady degradation you get with normal vision.
    It is also worth noting that crews should where at all possible be capable of Reversionary flight, ie flight without NVE, in case of a failure. If your limits are lower on NVE then without can you 'get out' at all times? A particular issue if you accept low cloud bases that dont allow reversionary flight and have no IFR option during the winter due to lack of anti icing.

    NVE are a brillient piece of kit and in todays world are becoming more prevalent in civil operations as well as the military, certainly by no means a 'military skill' anymore. However like all technology it has its failings, particularly if misused. NVE will take you down the rabbit hole, if your stupid enough to go there.

    PS as for 'pitch black' if there is low ambient light levels NVE doesn't work, serious problem out in Afghanistan when the moon light is low or the cloud cover is thick as there is very little other ambient / cultural light for the NVE to multiply.
    Last edited by Tadpole; 8th January 2012 at 14:23.

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    I suppose the intoduction of NVG's mean a lot more missions can now be completed whereas before missions probably had to be turned down because a low level option with sufficient terrain clearance and clearance from cloud couldn't be gauranteed. Another factor is that the Military don't have to comply with normal night VFR (or lack of) rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure Hover View Post
    I suppose the intoduction of NVG's mean a lot more missions can now be completed whereas before missions probably had to be turned down because a low level option with sufficient terrain clearance and clearance from cloud couldn't be gauranteed. Another factor is that the Military don't have to comply with normal night VFR (or lack of) rules.
    Is that on military ops with NVG, surely they have some sort of minimums they are not allowed below When using NVG's to fly members of the public where air ambulance flights are concerned?
    Last edited by Helihead; 8th January 2012 at 22:24.

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    Another factor is that the Military don't have to comply with normal night VFR (or lack of) rules.
    Neither do any civil operators with an exemption to the relevant SI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helihead View Post
    Is that on military ops with NVG, surely they have some sort of minimums they are not allowed below When using NVG's to fly members of the public where air ambulance flights are concerned?
    Oh I'm sure they probably do - most likely similar to best international practice. Hell of a lot safer than flying without them as was the case. For military ops the minimums could be significantly lower.

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    Oh I'm sure they probably do - most likely similar to best international practice
    Surely best International practice for flights carrying civilian personnel, in Europe at least, would be JAR-OPS3. Do the AC operate to JAR-OPS 3 standards, regulations and minimums when carrying civilian personnel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure Hover View Post
    Oh I'm sure they probably do - most likely similar to best international practice. Hell of a lot safer than flying without them as was the case. For military ops the minimums could be significantly lower.
    Hey PH, thanks for clarifying ;-)

  21. #21
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    would that mean that should the IAC get this role, it is going to paint its existing helis luminous yellow and use them for air ambulance from now on or that they will get a new fleet of air ambulance choppers?
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
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    would that mean that should the IAC get this role, it is going to paint its existing helis luminous yellow and use them for air ambulance from now on or that they will get a new fleet of air ambulance choppers?
    Hi Morpheus, it is most likely that the IAC will utilise the current fleet in its current guise. Word on the street is that it will be a 135 however with only 2 and night rural operations a likelihood I think I would prefer the payload / range of a 139 in my back pocket.
    Interestingly this will be the first AC operation I am aware of that will have full time civilian crew on board.
    Last edited by Tadpole; 10th January 2012 at 11:06.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tadpole View Post
    Interestingly this will be the first AC operation I am aware of that will have full time civilian crew on board.
    Wonder what the basis for pay and T&C will be,in 2010 the av pay in the CHC helis outfit was 92k pa,all ranks,grades and posts which is probably the going rate given that the engs/techs/pilots etc are very exp and top of their game.

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    I think the civil crew will be the HSE Paramedics in the back. Pilots etc will be Air Corps. I would imagine the Paramedics will remain paid by the HSE at basic HSE rates.

  25. #25
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
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    The thread is about AC air-ambulance missions, not what the coast guard heli's do.
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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