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  1. #1251
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Of course BREXIT could effect air ambulances to the UK too

  2. #1252
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    AIRCORPS112 arriving at UH Galway shortly before 6pm tonight in miserable weather.
    Pic:David McGrath

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

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  4. #1253
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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  5. #1254
    Lt General
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    Something the Air Corpse should be ashamed of. How can you not provide sufficient pilots so one dedicated air ambulance aircraft can remain available?
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  7. #1255
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmit� View Post
    Something the Air Corpse should be ashamed of. How can you not provide sufficient pilots so one dedicated air ambulance aircraft can remain available?
    Why the AC fault ?

    Some of it is, some of it isn’t - work practices some may be a DFHQ and/or DoD issue. Eg should AC pilots have to do the 6 mth Army JCSC.

    The pilot retention scheme was initiated around 1997 - that is how long this dates back, DoD decided to discontinue it to save €600k a year

  8. #1256
    BQMS EUFighter's Avatar
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    It takes between 4 & 5 complete crews to provide a full on-demand 24hr service, 7 days a week. And each of those crews has to maintain their IFR/night ratings at the same time.

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  10. #1257
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    It takes between 4 & 5 complete crews to provide a full on-demand 24hr service, 7 days a week. And each of those crews has to maintain their IFR/night ratings at the same time.
    And the establishment (never mind the strength) may not even allow that

  11. #1258
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    It is worth mentioning that neither the Air Corp nor the Coast Guard can provide this service.

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  13. #1259
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    http://www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/fil...R34_2000-0.PDF

    Safety recommendation from Tramore, AAIU recommending the DoD address the loss of AC pilots

    Loss of personnel and related issues featured in:
    5 Of the 26 systemic findings

  14. #1260
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    In the time of Tramore, there was no proper shift system for pilots or mechs. You were "on" for 24 hrs, regardless of the number of flights and you were expected to get sleep as and when you could, so a quiet day meant you got plenty of sleep and a busy day meant you didn't. It was the same on the Border and was well-established practise, flawed but considered normal.... The pilot retention scheme was a farce, because it was based around a threat, ie, we'll leave and go to the airlines unless you pay us more... and some of the "pilots" were non-flyers, who manned desks in ground appointments and flew once a year to keep their Wings and Flying pay.....right now, the DF can't compete with civvy jobs because the pay is (but not always) sub-par, the pension is gone to shit (but still better than a lot of civvy pensions) and the use of shifts means that it's just like a civvy job and the threat of having to do an overseas tour is sending people out the gate...

  15. #1261
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The establishment as far as I’ve seen isn’t set up for it.

    ATC isn’t 24/7 anymore due to lack of personnel

    I very much doubt when you have half the amount of techs (someone of whom could be trainees) that a shift system can be run effectively

  16. #1262
    CQMS spider's Avatar
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    How many other countries in Europe use their dedicated military air arm to complete this role?

    I don't know the answer but when I read this the first thing I thought was is this Air Corps business?
    'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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  18. #1263
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    How many other countries in Europe use their dedicated military air arm to complete this role? ...
    The AC isn't a military air arm, it's the direct labour organisation with aeroplanes...

    That's not a dig, or a piss take, or a rhetorical flourish - look at the list of what the AC does, then ask yourself what tasks get prioritised and what tasks get bumped off when an aircraft goes tech or a crew is off sick?

    How often do civilian tasks - air ambulance, fisheries, bog watching and whatever other bollocks task - get binned so that aircraft can support an Army or NS exercise?

    That's a deliberate policy and a culture formed by that long running policy - Government sets that policy following DOD advice, but the AC is no innocent victim: how many former senior officers, whether AC or Army or NS, go public with criticism about the squandering of these resources on 'parish pump' tasks and how that impacts the efficiency and effectiveness of the DF and it's duty to protect the state?

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  20. #1264
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    The AC isn't a military air arm, it's the direct labour organisation with aeroplanes...

    That's not a dig, or a piss take, or a rhetorical flourish - look at the list of what the AC does, then ask yourself what tasks get prioritised and what tasks get bumped off when an aircraft goes tech or a crew is off sick?

    How often do civilian tasks - air ambulance, fisheries, bog watching and whatever other bollocks task - get binned so that aircraft can support an Army or NS exercise?

    That's a deliberate policy and a culture formed by that long running policy - Government sets that policy following DOD advice, but the AC is no innocent victim: how many former senior officers, whether AC or Army or NS, go public with criticism about the squandering of these resources on 'parish pump' tasks and how that impacts the efficiency and effectiveness of the DF and it's duty to protect the state?
    What a load of rubbish and a insult to the aviation arm of the state. In case you haven't been paying attention recently the DF inc the AC is on its knees. Huge HR problems, ineffective funding, a clueless DoD, a nice but ineffective CoS means that the DF and in this case the AC is struggling to meet its commitments.
    However despite this, it can and it DOES come up trumps even though it's stretched and I hope will continue to prioritise a life saving air amb or HEMS over an army or NS EXERCISE!

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  22. #1265
    C/S CTU's Avatar
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    The current CoS was not CoS when the Air Corps replaced 14 helicopters with 8. Nor was he CoS when the MLH contract went tits up due to political interference. Like Ropebag said how many Former CoS, DCoS (one of whom was AC) or GOCs have gone public about the problems in the IAC and the wider DF.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed! I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

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  24. #1266
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    One recent GoC AC was just happy to keep MATS going. Unsurprisingly he was an ex MATS pilot.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  25. #1267
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTU View Post
    The current CoS was not CoS when the Air Corps replaced 14 helicopters with 8. Nor was he CoS when the MLH contract went tits up due to political interference. Like Ropebag said how many Former CoS, DCoS (one of whom was AC) or GOCs have gone public about the problems in the IAC and the wider DF.
    8 must more capable more modern cheaper & easier to maintain aircraft

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  27. #1268
    C/S CTU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    8 must more capable more modern cheaper & easier to maintain aircraft
    Please don't fall for that political BS excuse for cost cutting, Its the same excuse the MoD are using with the Royal Navy. If they are cheaper and easer to maintain then the ones they replaced then why didn't they replace like for like, instead they just replace the alouette with 4 AW139s the Dauphins with 2 AW139s and the gazelles with 2 EC135, and still expect them to do the same amount of missions.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed! I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

  28. #1269
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTU View Post
    Please don't fall for that political BS excuse for cost cutting, Its the same excuse the MoD are using with the Royal Navy. If they are cheaper and easer to maintain then the ones they replaced then why didn't they replace like for like, instead they just replace the alouette with 4 AW139s the Dauphins with 2 AW139s and the gazelles with 2 EC135, and still expect them to do the same amount of missions.
    More capable obviously of course means more expensive. There is a difference in numbers I won’t argue with you

    Do you seriously think that the Gazelle and Alouette were as capable as the EC135 or the Dauphin as capable as the AW139

  29. #1270
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    More capable obviously of course means more expensive. There is a difference in numbers I won’t argue with you

    Do you seriously think that the Gazelle and Alouette were as capable as the EC135 or the Dauphin as capable as the AW139
    No, but in the battle that is Finance Vs Operations Vs Resources, It doesn't matter how powerfull you think your friends in high places are, money talks - merit walks.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed! I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

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  31. #1271
    BQMS EUFighter's Avatar
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    Does anyone know how often the 2 EC135s from the GASU are used for air ambulance?

  32. #1272
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    Does anyone know how often the 2 EC135s from the GASU are used for air ambulance?
    Never AFAIK

  33. #1273
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    More capable obviously of course means more expensive. There is a difference in numbers I won’t argue with you

    Do you seriously think that the Gazelle and Alouette were as capable as the EC135 or the Dauphin as capable as the AW139
    No but
    why did we need 8 alouettes?
    who and why was it decided that half as many airframes was enough to replace them?

    why did we need 4 dauphins?
    who and why was it decided that half as many airframes was enough to replace them?

    why did we need 6 light strike jets and 7 trainer aircraft ?
    who and why was it decided 8 airframes was enough to replace 13 and thus remove our jet capability?

    Answer to all of the above is to do with the dept of finance and a limp wristed left leaning pile of backward looking govts, who've never taken defence seriously. Sadly I sometimes think that the worst thing that ever happened in this country was NOT being in a war post independence, it may have been the only way we would've taken it with more than a pinch of salt.

    The following is an actual underlying train of thought that runs through most citizens / politicians brains.
    We're Irish, we love a pint and the craic and having a dance and a giggle and sure everyone loves us, were great and we dont even need an army as were loved so much.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  35. #1274
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTU View Post
    Please don't fall for that political BS excuse for cost cutting, Its the same excuse the MoD are using with the Royal Navy. If they are cheaper and easer to maintain then the ones they replaced then why didn't they replace like for like, instead they just replace the alouette with 4 AW139s the Dauphins with 2 AW139s and the gazelles with 2 EC135, and still expect them to do the same amount of missions.
    Never the intention to replace like for like as the budget was only around €100 million and as usual things had come to crisis point with the whole helicopter fleet needing replacement. Similar issues exist in other air arms in terms of cost/benefit. There may not be as many RAF fast jet Sqns any more but the Typhoon and JSF will have a much greater capability. The 135/139 fleet was and is capable of delivering far in excess of what all the previous types put together could do providing of course it could retain the experience to pilot, crew and maintain them!!!! It also gave the AC the option to add additional airframes through attrition or operational requirements.

  36. #1275
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTU View Post
    The current CoS was not CoS when the Air Corps replaced 14 helicopters with 8. Nor was he CoS when the MLH contract went tits up due to political interference. Like Ropebag said how many Former CoS, DCoS (one of whom was AC) or GOCs have gone public about the problems in the IAC and the wider DF.
    The current CoS went on Primetime recently to say everything was essentially rosy when 600 of his troops were quietly pparticipating in a UL study to effectively say things were coming apart at the seams! Current and former Chiefs and GOCs will not speak out because apart from the cultural thing, the new breed is not thinking of retiring just yet. The only guy I can think of in recent times who ruffled some feathers was the former GOC W but he didn't get much support from former colleagues.

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