Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Air Corps air ambulance

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
    But you are funding the private company's aircraft, multiple times over.
    The Air Corps requires no additional funding to operate the existing aircraft for transfers, which has been done so for decades and continues to be done regardless of this contract.
    A fraction of that €7 million as a retention package would have solved the transfer's problem and all the other problems the Air Corps is surfing as a result of the DF wide retention crisis.
    Budgets within departments tend to be ring fenced. So money saved or gained from one section wouldn't reallocated to some thing pay. Mental Health services returned millions to central funding last year because they couldn't spend it where they were supposed to.

    The NAS outsources to private ambulances fleets the whole time for ambulances for transfers, not because it hasn't its own ambulances, but because it is cheaper to have contractors in place as opposed to have to use their own fleet for certain tasks. Unless of course you want to make the AC part of the HSE and remove its military capability, which is supposed to be its primary tasking!!!
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

    Comment


    • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
      Unless of course you want to make the AC part of the HSE and remove its military capability, which is supposed to be its primary tasking!!!
      Isn't that the problem? The Air Corps roles are now largely civilian in nature. Maybe it should be civilianised or become para military. That would solve the retention issue too particularly if you can hire pilots directly.

      Comment


      • The AC (and the rest of the DF) primary role is “to provide for the military defence of the State against armed aggression”.

        However, the threat is assessed as low, which therefor means that there is a low of spare capacity to undertake the other (more civilian nature) roles. If the threat was high, Government, DoD and the DF would be able to justify why the resources that were being put to use in these roles are needed to put a Bde on the ground in defensive positions.

        Of course, if DoD was pro-DF (they have improved massively), they would say the DF needs even more resources so it can do more (both military and civilian tasks).

        Comment


        • Originally posted by cpxxx View Post
          Isn't that the problem? The Air Corps roles are now largely civilian in nature. Maybe it should be civilianised or become para military. That would solve the retention issue too particularly if you can hire pilots directly.
          And then you lose the AC as an element of the Defence forces and what little airlift capability the army has is gone.
          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

          Comment


          • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
            And then you lose the AC as an element of the Defence forces and what little airlift capability the army has is gone.
            given the 'airlift' capability - when matched to the kind of sortie rates and availability the AC achieves - works out at one helicopter capable of carrying 8 blokes with their gear, what actual use in any real world situation do you think that has?

            serious question - if someone did a copycat of the London Bridge/Borough Market attack in Cork or Dublin at 10pm on a random Saturday night, how many 139's do you think the AC could get in the air within 15 minutes of the first 112/999 calls?

            how many within an hour?

            Comment


            • Ropebag, I wondered the same thing when watching the Paris attacks. Not to mention the armed response on the ground.
              No disrespect to the personnel in the Air Corps or Army as I'm sure they're aware of the problem.
              Even a major air accident or natural disaster would be problematic.
              But it will never happen here! It's comfy down here, head in the sand. Cosy even.

              Comment


              • GASU would be the first responder as they are a 24 hour (ish) operation. It is, however shocking that 20 years after it begun operations, it still only has 2 rotary and one fixed wing aircraft, based only in Dublin, instead of at least one per garda Region.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                  GASU would be the first responder as they are a 24 hour (ish) operation. It is, however shocking that 20 years after it begun operations, it still only has 2 rotary and one fixed wing aircraft, based only in Dublin, instead of at least one per garda Region.
                  GASU would be the first to arrive at an incident but they are effectively aerial C2 as the most they can carry is one or two pers due to the fitout in the cabin. To Move ARW/ERU in any numbers you need 139's or similar.
                  "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                  Comment


                  • PSNI has 6 aircraft for 6 counties!
                    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by apod View Post
                      GASU would be the first to arrive at an incident but they are effectively aerial C2 as the most they can carry is one or two pers due to the fitout in the cabin. To Move ARW/ERU in any numbers you need 139's or similar.
                      added to which the GASU helicopter is likely to be the best source of information regarding a hugely confusing, unfolding/moving situation that the Gardai have - the chances that the senior GS officers on duty in the control room are going to chin that off and go blind for half an hour while the GASU goes offline to go and pick up 2 ARW blokes is going to be, if not very nearly zero, then very actually zero.

                      anyone who came up with that plan, or believed or accepted it, is an idiot.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                        GASU would be the first responder as they are a 24 hour (ish) operation. It is, however shocking that 20 years after it begun operations, it still only has 2 rotary and one fixed wing aircraft, based only in Dublin, instead of at least one per garda Region.
                        One per region might be a bit of a stretch. 1 Helecopter per 2 regions with 2 in Dublin (3x EC135 & 1x EC145) might be more doable.
                        But giving that the Dog Unit is over 50 years old and is still mainly based in the DMR with a couple of handlers in the south instead of a dog team in every region, I wouldn't hold my breath
                        Last edited by CTU; 21 June 2018, 17:39.
                        It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
                        It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
                        It was a new age...It was the end of history.
                        It was the year everything changed.

                        Comment


                        • given the 'airlift' capability - when matched to the kind of sortie rates and availability the AC achieves - works out at one helicopter capable of carrying 8 blokes with their gear, what actual use in any real world situation do you think that has?
                          better than zero if you actually have it and your available assets are not rescuing cats from trees in some ministers parish!.. or out looking for his stolen bicycle.

                          It will never add up no matter how many helos you have if every organistaion in the state has first call on them before those they were supplied to serve.

                          Btw , Air Ambulance done in Waterford to day, sick person repatriated from Sweden by Cessna Citation......privately owned !!! And the taxpayer isn't picking up the bill!
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                          Comment


                          • Why would the ARW be responding when the pecking order for response is likely to be:
                            Unarmed local Gardai
                            ASU
                            ERU
                            ARW

                            Possibly with armed local detectives in the mix somewhere too

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                              Btw , Air Ambulance done in Waterford to day, sick person repatriated from Sweden by Cessna Citation......privately owned !!! And the taxpayer isn't picking up the bill!
                              Repatriation is often covered by health and/or travel insurance. There are a small number of private jet companies that specialize in patient repatriations. One in Shannon today also. Call sign "Med Air".

                              Taxpayers here would not fund repatriations but would provide Air Ambulance transport for specialist care only available outside the State. In most cases the Air Ambulance is more cost effective than providing the care here.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                                Why would the ARW be responding when the pecking order for response is likely to be:
                                Unarmed local Gardai
                                ASU
                                ERU
                                ARW

                                Possibly with armed local detectives in the mix somewhere too
                                Depends on the incident.Certain scenarios the Wing are higher up the response matrix.
                                "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X