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  1. #1401
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    Ropebag, I wondered the same thing when watching the Paris attacks. Not to mention the armed response on the ground.
    No disrespect to the personnel in the Air Corps or Army as I'm sure they're aware of the problem.
    Even a major air accident or natural disaster would be problematic.
    But it will never happen here! It's comfy down here, head in the sand. Cosy even.

  2. #1402
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    GASU would be the first responder as they are a 24 hour (ish) operation. It is, however shocking that 20 years after it begun operations, it still only has 2 rotary and one fixed wing aircraft, based only in Dublin, instead of at least one per garda Region.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  3. #1403
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    GASU would be the first responder as they are a 24 hour (ish) operation. It is, however shocking that 20 years after it begun operations, it still only has 2 rotary and one fixed wing aircraft, based only in Dublin, instead of at least one per garda Region.
    GASU would be the first to arrive at an incident but they are effectively aerial C2 as the most they can carry is one or two pers due to the fitout in the cabin. To Move ARW/ERU in any numbers you need 139's or similar.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  5. #1404
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    PSNI has 6 aircraft for 6 counties!
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  7. #1405
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    GASU would be the first to arrive at an incident but they are effectively aerial C2 as the most they can carry is one or two pers due to the fitout in the cabin. To Move ARW/ERU in any numbers you need 139's or similar.
    added to which the GASU helicopter is likely to be the best source of information regarding a hugely confusing, unfolding/moving situation that the Gardai have - the chances that the senior GS officers on duty in the control room are going to chin that off and go blind for half an hour while the GASU goes offline to go and pick up 2 ARW blokes is going to be, if not very nearly zero, then very actually zero.

    anyone who came up with that plan, or believed or accepted it, is an idiot.

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  9. #1406
    C/S CTU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    GASU would be the first responder as they are a 24 hour (ish) operation. It is, however shocking that 20 years after it begun operations, it still only has 2 rotary and one fixed wing aircraft, based only in Dublin, instead of at least one per garda Region.
    One per region might be a bit of a stretch. 1 Helecopter per 2 regions with 2 in Dublin (3x EC135 & 1x EC145) might be more doable.
    But giving that the Dog Unit is over 50 years old and is still mainly based in the DMR with a couple of handlers in the south instead of a dog team in every region, I wouldn't hold my breath
    Last edited by CTU; Yesterday at 16:39.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed! I mean, annihilation’s bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

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  11. #1407
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    given the 'airlift' capability - when matched to the kind of sortie rates and availability the AC achieves - works out at one helicopter capable of carrying 8 blokes with their gear, what actual use in any real world situation do you think that has?
    better than zero if you actually have it and your available assets are not rescuing cats from trees in some ministers parish!.. or out looking for his stolen bicycle.

    It will never add up no matter how many helos you have if every organistaion in the state has first call on them before those they were supplied to serve.

    Btw , Air Ambulance done in Waterford to day, sick person repatriated from Sweden by Cessna Citation......privately owned !!! And the taxpayer isn't picking up the bill!
    Time for another break I think......

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  13. #1408
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Why would the ARW be responding when the pecking order for response is likely to be:
    Unarmed local Gardai
    ASU
    ERU
    ARW

    Possibly with armed local detectives in the mix somewhere too

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  15. #1409
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Btw , Air Ambulance done in Waterford to day, sick person repatriated from Sweden by Cessna Citation......privately owned !!! And the taxpayer isn't picking up the bill!
    Repatriation is often covered by health and/or travel insurance. There are a small number of private jet companies that specialize in patient repatriations. One in Shannon today also. Call sign "Med Air".

    Taxpayers here would not fund repatriations but would provide Air Ambulance transport for specialist care only available outside the State. In most cases the Air Ambulance is more cost effective than providing the care here.

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  17. #1410
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Why would the ARW be responding when the pecking order for response is likely to be:
    Unarmed local Gardai
    ASU
    ERU
    ARW

    Possibly with armed local detectives in the mix somewhere too
    Depends on the incident.Certain scenarios the Wing are higher up the response matrix.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  19. #1411
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    The GOC Aer Corp in the past stated in the magazine "Flying in Ireland" that the stated aim was to have Pilots when leaving to have at least so many hours up on their log books.
    This may be the Brillcream boys priority. Flight hours from where ever they can get them.
    Found it by accident clearing out the attic

    Quoting Brig Gen James in July 2005:
    “Some pilots left after ten years with 1,500 or 2,000 hours. If I can get them to leave with 4,000 hours well i’ve Doubled the output. If he is doing that somebody else is coming in behind him.

    Of course, this was at a time when Alouettes and Dauphins were still in service.

    Interestingly from the same article, the State went to tender in 2003 for a long range aircraft capable of carrying at least 25 pax and 5 crew 3500 nm non-stop. Government decided not to proceed due to cuts.

    Same article also provides a total hours break down (in PQs and reports it is just normally ops), for 2004:
    Training 3593 hrs 30%
    Service Support 512.7 Hrs 4%
    SAR 99.9 Hrs 1%
    MATS & VIP 1667.4 Hrs 14%
    Maritime Patrol 1582.1 Hrs 13%
    Maintenance Support 296 Hrs 2%
    Civil Assistance, Support & PR 267.6 Hrs 2%
    Army & Navy Co-Op 1824.2 Hrs 15%
    Air Ambulance 193.5 Hrs 2%
    ATCP 2098.4 Hrs 17%

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  21. #1412
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    https://www.iasmedical.com/page/84/A...-Ireland-to-UK


    12K sterling from Ireland to UK....for one flight..on demand. Easy see how an on call service could get expensive.


    https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2017/...air-ambulance/

    did we miss something?
    Last edited by hptmurphy; Today at 00:54.
    Time for another break I think......

  22. #1413
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Found it by accident clearing out the attic

    Quoting Brig Gen James in July 2005:
    “Some pilots left after ten years with 1,500 or 2,000 hours. If I can get them to leave with 4,000 hours well i’ve Doubled the output. If he is doing that somebody else is coming in behind him.

    Of course, this was at a time when Alouettes and Dauphins were still in service.

    Interestingly from the same article, the State went to tender in 2003 for a long range aircraft capable of carrying at least 25 pax and 5 crew 3500 nm non-stop. Government decided not to proceed due to cuts.

    Same article also provides a total hours break down (in PQs and reports it is just normally ops), for 2004:
    Training 3593 hrs 30%
    Service Support 512.7 Hrs 4%
    SAR 99.9 Hrs 1%
    MATS & VIP 1667.4 Hrs 14%
    Maritime Patrol 1582.1 Hrs 13%
    Maintenance Support 296 Hrs 2%
    Civil Assistance, Support & PR 267.6 Hrs 2%
    Army & Navy Co-Op 1824.2 Hrs 15%
    Air Ambulance 193.5 Hrs 2%
    ATCP 2098.4 Hrs 17%
    So the article was referring specifically to output rather than purely just creating hours for the "Brillcream Boys" as was originally claimed.

    Yet another example of how something can be taken out of context and construed as something else to suit someones narrative or agenda.

    Considering AC pilots are under contract for 12 years, leaving with 2000 hours inst large.

    170 hours a year. Pales in comparison to those in the airlines who routinely do 600-700 hours and upwards to 900 hours oer year. The number clearing 300 hours per annum is minuscule.

    Thanks for finding the article.
    Last edited by Chuck; Today at 12:03.

  23. #1414
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    I already referred to this in another thread.

    The contracted aircraft was based in Dublin and cost 20,000 euro per day, before call out costs. The cost was kept well under wraps by dept of health.

    No money to retain pilots, crew and ATC but no hassle finding 140,000 euro per week to finance a private UK based contractor.

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