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  • I believe we had this debate on pages 1 and 2 of this thread, do a find on the JAR-OPS document tadpole posted and see how many times "ambulance" is in the document!
    Ah Dev, how many times???
    AA is not directly mentioned in the main JAR OPS3 doc. However if you care to look in the ACJ (Additional explanatory material) to the HEMS section it is pointed out that AA must operate completely within JAR OPS3, the same as any standard commercial operation. As it is considered a standard commercial operation it has no special section in JAR OPS3.
    HEMS on the other hand operates with some alleviations from JAR OPS3 standard regulations and hence has its own section.

    Comment


    • I think it is prudent to re-iterate the warning I put up on the other thread. It shouldn't curtail your discussion just please think before you post.
      MOD: I'm sure that people don't need to be reminded that two people died in this incident. They have family and friends some of whom read this site. Please out of respect consider your comments carefully before posting.

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      • never mind....

        I think the IAC will do a good job even if some think that they shouldn't be doing the job in the first place.
        Last edited by morpheus; 24 January 2012, 13:35.
        "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
        "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

        Comment


        • And, while only a SLF, but a moderator here, I tend to agree with JJ. Please do not derail a perfectly decent discussion into something that should reside in the PC-9 thread.
          "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

          "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

          Comment


          • Jet Jock the PC 9 report is the best place to discuss the proposed IAC HEMS operation . Because the AAIU have highlighted the possible need for external auditing. HEMS is civil role that is highly regulated and audited. It is difficult as an organisation to accept public reports without trying to defend the sometimes indefendable.

            In relation to being anti this or that Im pro flight safety, openess and compliance

            Comment


            • OK, as there are a number of new people posting on this thread I think that it is appropriate to go over the accepted behaviours on this site.
              1. You do not post operational information.
              2. You do not personally identify any poster.
              3. You do not attack or personally insult any poster, if you disagree with a point made you argue against it.
              4. The moderators decision is FINAL. IMO is not a democracy, there is no right to free speach on this site.

              OK carrry on debating.

              Comment


              • my point is in relation to introduction of HEMS or AA, will there be good quality controls and checks in place to ensure the operation is run to best international practices?

                Also, is anyone else concerned that this service may be operated out of an army barracks (if the report is accurate of course) Hardly ideal.
                MB
                Last edited by FMolloy; 27 January 2012, 01:34. Reason: off-topic stuff removed

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Meatbomb View Post
                  Also, is anyone else concerned that this service may be operated out of an army barracks (if the report is accurate of course) Hardly ideal.
                  What is wrong with that?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                    What is wrong with that?
                    Well read the accident report on the Dauphin , it makes a number of references to lack of airfield services.
                    In a barracks you have no ATC, no nav aids for recovery in poor weather, no runway. You have an a/c based in a highly build up area, beside the river shannon which will invariably increase the incidence of fog and bad viz. There is no airfield nearby for diversion and as previously discussed there wont be a lot of capacity on a 135 for diversion fuel.
                    In Short basing it at an airfield would be a better option, if it absolutely had to be an army barracks, why not Galway? Coastal (will be affected by weather granted, but with low level approach option available) Nearby licensed airfield, during the day at least and near your hospital complete with pad.
                    MB

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Meatbomb View Post
                      1: Will the Air Corps introduce auditing by a 3rd party?
                      2: Will they address the issues surrounding the high turnover and/or the lack of direct oversight by squadron commanders?
                      1. I think there was a safety audit of the AC by a private company (or it may just have been Baldonnel)
                      2. High turnover is an issue for senior DF/DOD management and Government

                      Originally posted by Tadpole
                      Also, on the flip side I can understand the wishes of those outside the Defence Forces to question the safety of the Air Corps operation in light of possible operations carrying civil personnel.
                      Because the lives of servants of the State are less important? I know that's what you mean!?

                      Comment


                      • Because the lives of servants of the State are less important? I know that's what you mean!?
                        No Dev, because military personnel accept a certain amount of increased risk by the nature of their employment, civilians on the other hand should be protected to the same standards as any other civilian HEMS worker. Is that not acceptable to you?

                        Comment


                        • If people can't stay on-topic I'm going to have to lock the thread.
                          "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

                          Comment


                          • Hi All,

                            @ Fenestron. I am sorry, you have missed my point completely....

                            Dirkindaherc
                            "Galway should have been an option for the A/C. Invest into the failing Airport. in turn reduce flight times to the west, have an infrstucture in place for the running of an aircraft... Fuel, fire service etc..."

                            If the Air Corps positioned an aircraft in Galway, then it would generate money which would have an impact on the operational hours of the airport. Galway is reducing manpower and hours due to cash flow..... The infrastructure would be in place if the cash flow was there... this is the unfortunate positions that the small regional airports find themselves in as a result of eg: Aer Arann pulling out, loss of PSO, and commercial traffic reductions = reduction is cash = reduction in operation capability.

                            Sorry for not explaining it more clearly to you the first time.

                            Perhaps the set up using the 135 instead of the 139 is totally related to manpower and maintainable programs around engineering. Leaving aside the unfortunate 139 TR problems, they still require a high maint, now it would be difficult to achieve this on a forward operating base ie: Athlone with limited means. troop movements to Athlone to carry the maint duties out, rosters etc. these are all issues that effect this operation.

                            Also ref carrying Paramedics and Doctors, Recently in the UK it was discovered that the insurers for voluntary mtn rescue teams and medics said they would NOT be insured if they had a accident involving Air Craft operations as that is not in role of the job. how would PHECC registered/ HSE paramedics fare out.

                            Regards
                            DITH
                            Hopefully the mayan's got it right and were all on a one way ticket outta here!!

                            Comment


                            • Dirk
                              I think Galway airport burned its bridges with the aviation community a while back. They have been anti aviation with airspace charges for flying through their zone and crazy landing/parking charges as well as probably being one of the most expensive for fuel if not the most expensive in the country? Its no wonder its got no turnover.

                              Whats going to happen when the northwest and southwest start kicking up looking for an air ambulance after Roscommon getting one. they will want one to be based at their locations? Athlone to Dingle 1hr and dingle to Dub 1hr 25min, or Athlone to Letterkenny 50min and then another hour to Dub, Where to refuel? Think the 139 would be better suited unless the 135 in athlone is going to only cover flights in mid west. Why did the HSE decide to put an air ambulance in Athlone or are they looking at expanding it to have additional bases? I think if someone needed to get to A & E they would get there faster by road if they were based in the midlands than if they were based in west cork/west kerry so what is the logic?

                              Comment


                              • Fen,

                                I agree they have indeed burnt their bridges.... those airspace charges were idiotic to say the least. Thought up by some foolish person in a office somewhere during a greedy period. My thought process was based on locale of the argument between Athlone/Galway. If anything, I am quite sure the reasoning behind putting the A/c into Athlone was a political one to dampen the upset of removal of services from Roscommon General. That aside, I would also agree that there is nothing to stop the Northwest and Southwest arguing their positions. They already have the Air Corps hospital transfer facility at their call, as the constant updates on facebook show every time there's an Air Ambulance mission completed. (which is no bad thing, its a worthwhile and fantastic service). Where the problem starts is when they ask for a "dedicated" asset to the based in those locations...... "Houston we would have a problem".

                                1. Air Corps would have issues setting up a dedicated base away from Dublin without proper funding. (which they would not get)
                                2. Crews would either need to move to those locations to effect a workable roster, or have enough personnel to allow a commutable roster. (with the funding attached)

                                The Air Corps have the tools, although not the best tools in the kit, and they have people dedicated, but until they get proper funding/training and direction, and perhaps better tools for the job.... I see no credible improvement in the system currently on offer, instead we shall see patch job after patch job likened to trying to shore up holes in a Sieve.....

                                Yes I would also agree and I have previously stated in another post that I would much rather see the AW139 used for the job as it provides you with greater capability both in ROA, and workable space. Again the two points above are or at least im sure play a part in the Athlone operation.

                                Ref the road times, indeed anywhere in the Midlands your travel time would be excellent, coming from anywhere down deep Kerry way, Ballybunion area, then your time to get to a supposed "centre of excellence" could be an issue.

                                And finally you mention logic... since when did that exist in anything the Government (or Governments previous) or DF have done.....


                                Regards

                                DITH
                                Hopefully the mayan's got it right and were all on a one way ticket outta here!!

                                Comment

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