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  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
    As do the AC with the MAA
    I am not sure if the MAA has quite the reach or experience of it's RAF equivalent: I don't think the MAA certify's new aircraft types, does the MAA have any input to the operation of the aircraft? my understanding is that the MAA overseas maintenance. I am open to correction but my understanding is that the MAA has a more narrow focus.

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    • Originally posted by Charlie252 View Post
      I am not sure if the MAA has quite the reach or experience of it's RAF equivalent: I don't think the MAA certify's new aircraft types, does the MAA have any input to the operation of the aircraft? my understanding is that the MAA overseas maintenance. I am open to correction but my understanding is that the MAA has a more narrow focus.
      Not sure myself but there is also Flight Safety Section (who audit ops).

      As far as I know it is the manufacturer who is responsible for certification.

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      • Is that the same FSS that were (monitoring )the FTS section of the IAC from 2004-2009.

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        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
          Not sure myself but there is also Flight Safety Section (who audit ops).

          As far as I know it is the manufacturer who is responsible for certification.
          Hi,

          I know we are going off topic, but as I understand it the Flight Safety Section has no executive authority and so can only make recommendations, MAA are over the Maintenance and the GOC is the defacto Director of Flight Ops(JAR Terminology) although as I understand it the SOP's etc are determined at a Sub-Unit Level, the IAC take the Manufacturers Certification and Flight Manuals.
          The RAF due to its size and capabilities can flight test and certify a new type and then develop the SOP's and flight manual. The difference in scale, expertise and even Skill Set(Test Pilots, flight test engineers) Etc are enormous.

          This does not mean in my View that the IAC are not competent it is just not operating at the level of an Air Force.

          My only point is that the discussion is not employing a useful comparator..

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          • Thats the same as saying the NS does not operate at the level of a navy,fair enough it is not at blue water levels nor does it pretend to be but is perfectly good at what it does do.

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            • The best comparison for the current Irish EAS and AA operations are other EAS (HEMS) and AA operations worldwide Europe. Now that I am aware HEMS and AA are almost, if not exclusively carried out in Europe by civilian operators. Therefore a fair comparison would be with civilian regulated operations would it not?

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              • Originally posted by danno View Post
                Thats the same as saying the NS does not operate at the level of a navy,fair enough it is not at blue water levels nor does it pretend to be but is perfectly good at what it does do.
                I Agree totally, but comparing one to the other is not a Fair or Accurate comparison, I think I'm repeating myself.

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                • Originally posted by Tadpole View Post
                  The best comparison for the current Irish EAS and AA operations are other EAS (HEMS) and AA operations worldwide Europe. Now that I am aware HEMS and AA are almost, if not exclusively carried out in Europe by civilian operators. Therefore a fair comparison would be with civilian regulated operations would it not?
                  Absolutely. There will still be no external oversight. Best practice regulations will be applied internally. However stringently who knows. Beating the same drum about it over and over wont change a thing though. Move on people. DF/HSE strategy decisions were never formulated on IMO.

                  There will be no civilianisation in the current climate. Revisit this idea in 5 years if there is money available.

                  This thread has become the greatest collection of wind blowing in the history of this site.

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                  • Originally posted by Tadpole View Post
                    The best comparison for the current Irish EAS and AA operations are other EAS (HEMS) and AA operations worldwide Europe. Now that I am aware HEMS and AA are almost, if not exclusively carried out in Europe by civilian operators. Therefore a fair comparison would be with civilian regulated operations would it not?
                    Still, in your own words, not comparing like with like then.

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                    • Actually Dev the OPERATIONS are exactly the same so are a very good comparison with how these operations are being run in Ireland and the rest of Europe. The difference is the operator and how they are regulated and controlled.

                      JJ,
                      Nobody is trying to shape policy, it's called a debate. If you feel it's a waste of time please feel free not to take part.

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                      • Correct but a fair comparison would be similar ops by similar operators.

                        Like comparing a troop rotation flight to the Leb using a USAF C130 and an Aer Lingus Airbus.

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                        • Correct but a fair comparison would be similar ops by similar operators
                          Thats the very point. No military organisation in Europe is providing a full time civilian HEMS service, why do you think that is?

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                          • Originally posted by Tadpole View Post
                            Thats the very point. No military organisation in Europe is providing a full time civilian HEMS service, why do you think that is?
                            Well to be fair neither is the AC.
                            Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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                            • Originally posted by Tadpole View Post
                              Thats the very point. No military organisation in Europe is providing a full time civilian HEMS service, why do you think that is?
                              Because this is on a pilot programme to see if the demand is sufficient ?!

                              Because most countries are bigger, richer and have larger populations ?!

                              Because most countries have have such operations for years ?!

                              Because most countries military's (ground, air and sea) don't get involved in civilian ops -be it CIT escorts, fishery protection or HEMS !?

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                              • Most likely the report into the ec135 will devote reference to oversight and whether civvy oversight should be applicable to mil air assets on civvy ops.Wili this apply to FP and Mats work in addition to AA etc.

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