Air Corps air ambulance

[Meatbomb]

Tadpole,
How does these rules relate to or affect the GASU operation?

[DeV]

"Similar" says it all.

It is also a military aircraft.

In the run of things it's much cheaper for the department of health and defence (all it costs in financial terms is fuel and allowances).

[Meatbomb]

"Similar" says it all.

It is also a military aircraft.

In the run of things it's much cheaper for the department of health and defence (all it costs in financial terms is fuel and allowances).

And the cost of a fully functioning aerodrome complete with all the support staff, security, catering, depot, gym, engineering, apprentice school and that's only a shortened list.
The standard reply is "yea they would have been there anyway" rings hollow, if there was spare capacity there it was a missed opportunity for cost saving. Yes there must be flexibility and in the end military folk follow orders but its a shame to see the resources wasted by the neglect of management/government(s)

[DeV]

Correct the same could be said for some of the regional airports (eg Silgo and Waterford).

That is because military organisations have spare capacity built in, they don't just have 1 role!

If there wasn't spare capacity then some irish civilian apprentices would probably have had to immigrate to finish their apprenticeships.

[Tadpole]

"Similar" says it all.

No it doesn't. The 'similar' refers to public interest operations that are not covered under the EASA Basic Regulation. AA and HEMS (EAS) most certainly are.

It is also a military aircraft.

Irrelevant. I have already shown that the application of the regulations will be determined by the type of operation not the owner, operator or registry of the aircraft even if that happens to be State / military.

If there wasn't spare capacity then some irish civilian apprentices would probably have had to immigrate to finish their apprenticeships.

..and the cost of running an entire school within the Air Corps for low numbers of students versus sending them on civil courses, overseas if necessary? Not saying they shouldn't do it but its certainly not a good example of spare capacity that the military should have.

[DeV]

Irrelevant. I have already shown that the application of the regulations will be determined by the type of operation not the owner, operator or registry of the aircraft even if that happens to be State / military.

In that case it would apply to the AC's most important role!

MATS

[Tadpole]

Not necessarily. Firstly they are not carrying random members of the public, they are State officials. Secondly it could be argued that the military/ State aircraft is required for security requirements.
Sorry, it's just not the same as carrying out a civilian operation such as AA or HEMS.

[DeV]

Irrelevant. I have already shown that the application of the regulations will be determined by the type of operation not the owner, operator or registry of the aircraft even if that happens to be State / military.

Not necessarily. Firstly they are not carrying random members of the public, they are State officials. Secondly it could be argued that the military/ State aircraft is required for security requirements.
Sorry, it's just not the same as carrying out a civilian operation such as AA or HEMS.

So AA ops should be covered because civilians are being transported but air transport doesn't need to be because the passengers are politicians or civil servants (or for that matter actually Irish citizens evacuated from Libya).

[Tadpole]

We aren't talking about general air transport but rather MATS, the important word being ministerial, ie members of Government. Joe soap politicians shouldn't be on MATS flights for so many reasons.

WRT Libya it was in a conflict zone so yes It could be considered a military operation but only as far as the first refuelling stop. For example if the aircraft landed in Malta to refuel on the way home then the leg from Malta to Bal with civilians on board would be considered bog standard commercial air transport and regulated as such.

[danno]

Not necessarily. Firstly they are not carrying random members of the public, they are State officials. Secondly it could be argued that the military/ State aircraft is required for security requirements.
Sorry, it's just not the same as carrying out a civilian operation such as AA or HEMS.

However by your reasoning the nature of the business of the op is relevant,ie ,the px must be discharging official state business and not opening pubs etc.

[Tadpole]

However by your reasoning the nature of the business of the op is relevant,ie ,the px must be discharging official state business and not opening pubs etc.

I absolutely agree and if it stops this kind of abuse of State assets should anybody be complaining?

[Jetjock]

I absolutely agree and if it stops this kind of abuse of State assets should anybody be complaining?

If it stops it? Have you seen the usage figures for the last few years? If it ain't State business, you ain't flying. Remember it's the Dept of an Taoiseach that authorises the use of government jets and a certain Bass drinker was a lot more inclined to authorise it than in recent times.

[Tadpole]

Unfortunately JetJock you know as well as I do that this is a reaction to public opinion in a time of economic crisis, roll on a few years a better economy and it will start all over again. This would but an end to it for good.

[Jetjock]

I hope we have learned our lesson but I'm not that naive.

[SARMAN]

Hi all, seen a few pics knocking about social media of the 139 in a tent/mobile hanger. Just a few questions, is this a new tent that has been purchased on top of the 135 tent. Or was the 135 tent good enough. Also I have heard a 139 leaving Athlone around half three/four most days, is it going home every day? Or is there another reason for this?

Last question I have is more important, if for example the s92 was tasked while training (which has happened four times in the last week) for a HEMS job inshore and needed fuel to comlete the mission in a more direct route, would Athlone be available for fuel and could it be used by the CG?