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for the benefit of some who doubted i / we did any Public Disorder training with the Metropolitan Police in their training centre:
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Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 3 December 2011, 23:51. -
and yes, we still do Public Disorder training...
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Is the new kit flame proof, why no body armour?Comment
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nope i don't believe it is flame-proof, and body armour in this instance is usally ECBA (not Osprey) and it is worn under the Smock, with extra riot protective gear bolted on over the uniform as required.Originally posted by DeV View Post
this is probably just low level build-up training anyhow as they are using mock Hickory Sticks.Comment
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Because flame used during training won't burn you?Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
Insane.
Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.Comment
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we don't wear fire-retardant combats - so we are hardly going to wear them in training and not when it really kicks off.Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
of course it burns - but you just go get new combats from the Clothing Store and put it down to realistic experience.
but hitting an individuals limbs or over the head with a real Hickory Stick - that breaks bones and knocks people unconscious - we can't do that in routine training.Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 4 December 2011, 23:44.Comment
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You wouldn't get that in the DF, the Q and stores would go insane and try their best to refuse to give you new uniforms..............I've seen it myself, but not over things getting burned, with this they'd suffer a brain aneurysm or break out into rainman banging his head.Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
On a side note, isn't the american ACU's flame resistant?Don't stand there GAWPING, like you've never seen the hand of God BEFORE!!Comment
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i don't know about the American ACU's but our Defence Clothing Team have said that making combat uniforms flame resistant can be done - but would leave you with a fabric not suitable for daily use as intended.Comment
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There are versions of the ACU that are flame resistant but not all of them are.
EDIT: Found a document about Flame Resistant ACU (FR ACU).
Last edited by spaceghetti; 5 December 2011, 03:22.Comment
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other than cost - there must be some ofther disadvantage that prevents it being standard issue.Originally posted by spaceghetti View Post
doesn't it have to be constantly reproofed?
i can't find the report on ours, but i recall it saying implementing FR properties would affect something along the lines of breathability, comfort, flexibility and durability.Comment
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"The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."Comment
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Looks like the American's have addressed this:Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
Also according to this document four pairs of FR ACU's are issued to each soldier going overseas:"In response to a solicitation from the Army, the American textile industry responded with
over two dozen excellent FR fabrics. Extensive testing and evaluation resulted in 6 oz.
Defender M® fabric being selected as the material of choice for the Fire Resistant Army
Combat Uniform (FR ACU). Defender M® provided the best combination of fire resistance,
durability, and breathability while also closely matching the non-fire resistant ACU in texture
and appearance."
"In late 2007, the Army began issuing two FR ACUs and two non-FR ACUs
per deploying Soldier, and four FR ACUs in early 2008"Comment
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IN our public order role (overseas) we have flame retardant coveralls, each man has his own set.Originally posted by FMolloy View Post
when petrol bombs and sugar bombs are thrown at you they sting the fukc out of you and
thats through the flame retardant suit- the Brits in ordinary non flame retardant uniform
must be in agony, and being in agony means you are not doing the job properly.
We conducted exercises with the Brit Com PFR in Kosovo and they were kitted out in
flame retardant coveralls just like us.Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.Comment
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we do have FR coveralls but we're not issued them routinely and although they are part of our QRF kit - in Ireland and Bosnia we never used them despite many incidents where we were petrol bombed, and i am pretty confident that in the heat of Iraq and Afghanistan they would also be a last resort.
the local commander will make the call on the day - but generally we have almost always gone in in combats, prepared to upscale as required, or for hardcore relentless training on the receiving end of petrol bombs FR coveralls might be worn.
obviously as hedgie pointed out you are better protected with FR kit, but from years of shared experience and having been hit a couple of times, petrol bombs are more for display effect than actaual damaging effect, and i'm not aware of any of our soldiers who have become casualties over the years despite hundreds of molotov cocktail attacks.Comment
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In the BA, we were taught how to make proper petrol bombs during FIBUA training and were throwing them from cover at burnt out tanks. I don't recall being told that practice was for "display purposes"
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