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Thread: Cambrian Patrol

  1. #26
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    I accept that,start small with sports/soccer and then evolve into "orienteering" exs.Get the MA/public to adjust to the concept of the mutual visits no diff to navy ships visiting.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    nobody is invited.
    Fair one, "Invited" was an incorrect use of phrase. What I meant is, was it open to the RDF candidacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    What is preventing us (realistically - not excuses but)?:

    cost - transport, rations, mandays?
    pre-training - time, experience
    fitness
    you need to bring your own night sights (and optional PRRs)
    Let's be honest, if someone up high poopoo'd a legitimate attempt to participate in the Cambrian Patrol based on logistical/cost reasons, then we may as well all give up. I'd weep for the future of the RDF in that case. If we as a nation, as a Defence Force, cannot afford to put 10 or so lads on a bus to UK for a week on a military training exercise that would only benefit the organisation in terms of experience, interoperability with foreign forces, and PR, then what's the point in it us putting on the uniform?

    Personally, I'd like to see one unit take this on. Provide a support team (SNCO + a driver maybe), elect an Offr who's switched on to fúck, a Cpl who is the same, and hold a Bde wide competition to get the 6 Ptes needed.

    Then I'd want to see a training programme put together incorporating all the skills necessary for the Patrol: Recce, CASEVAC, VP, water obstacle crossing, night navigation, 8 man SIA, etc. 2x weeks FTT and a few weekends should cover it if planned correctly.

    The kit is there, the lads are there, the man days are there and we have the perfect training grounds too.

    All that's needed is leadership and the will to see it happen. And while I have my reservations about what the RDF is capable of, I'm convinced that we wouldn't let ourselves down on this event.

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  4. #28
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    when your transport budget (for POL) is being cut for normal training - it is an issue

    your also talking ferry journey/flights - they all cost - even if it is €15 each
    Dev, we are talking about sending 10 men to England / Wales for a couple of days - absolutely pittance.

    i can't believe such a tiny expense could even be considered at any level - the training value alone should be what people are looking at.

    we go all over the world at the drop of a hat and the cost hardly ever comes into it unless we are moving heavy armour etc.

    if the cost and logistics of such a tiny venture is the slightest issue - then things are far worse than i thought.

    i'd say you are blowing this out of proportion, but given how last years effort to send a team failed miserably, i'm afraid i'm inclined to believe you.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

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  6. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    cannot afford to put 10 or so lads on a bus to UK for a week on a military training exercise that would only benefit the organisation in terms of experience, interoperability with foreign forces, and PR, then what's the point in it us putting on the uniform?
    I'm not disagreeing but why go to the cost of this when we could use the money to improve the training of a larger number of people.

    In the good times when there was plenty of mandays, it could have been a runner.

    Members of the RDF did British Army Orienteering Planning (etc) courses a few years ago.
    hold a Bde wide competition to get the 6 Ptes needed.

    2x weeks FTT and a few weekends should cover it if planned correctly.

    The kit is there, the lads are there, the man days are there
    Thing of the logistics of getting 1 pte from Wexford, 1 from Cork, 1 from Limerick, 1 from West Kerry etc etc to Cork to do a training weekend. It does happen for other courses yes but.....

    Are the mandays there? I think you will find that units can't get 2 weeks FTT.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    Dev, we are talking about sending 10 men to England / Wales for a couple of days - absolutely pittance.

    i can't believe such a tiny expense could even be considered at any level - the training value alone should be what people are looking at.

    we go all over the world at the drop of a hat and the cost hardly ever comes into it unless we are moving heavy armour etc.

    if the cost and logistics of such a tiny venture is the slightest issue - then things are far worse than i thought.

    i'd say you are blowing this out of proportion, but given how last years effort to send a team failed miserably, i'm afraid i'm inclined to believe you.
    RGJ you have no idea the financial pressure the RDF is under.

  7. #30
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    I suppose it comes down to the will of whoever's leading it then Dev. If you want to avoid the cost of a competition, then let the patrol commander hand pick his guys based on previous experience. Failing that, appeal to other units to recommend their best men for consideration. Where there's a will, there's a way.

    As for the cost. If 58Bn can themselves get to New York to represent the RDF, then I'm sure the lads wouldn't object to buying a ferry ticket to Wales if the DF are too cheap to do so. I know I would.
    Last edited by SwiftandSure; 4th February 2012 at 11:46.

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  9. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    I suppose it comes down to the will of whoever's leading it then Dev. If you want to avoid the cost of a competition, then let the patrol commander hand pick his guys based on previous experience. Failing that, appeal to other units to recommend their best men for consideration. Where there's a will, there's a way.

    As for the cost. If 58Bn can themselves get to New York to represent the RDF, then I'm sure the lads wouldn't object to buying a ferry ticket to Wales if the DF are too cheap to do so. I know I would.
    no no no no no - don't even go there.

    this is an international military exercise held on your own door step.

    there is absolutely no way private funding should be considered for such an event.

    participation in the exercise should be proposed to a unit OC, he should approve it and that is your authority to do everything at public expense.

    if we ever had to consider costs incurred at this level then we would never get anything done.

    it is arduous military training in which the men will represent their country.

    just send any section from a decent Recce Platoon and you will do well - that's all we did when i did it and we got a Silver.

    i can't believe we are even having this conversation about 'cost' when it would cost feck all to conduct such an exercise - we host you and we support you - you just have to get here, fcuk the cost because it's feck all anyhow.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

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  11. #32
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    RGJ, if units are struggling to transport their troops to the Range for ARP, let alone parade night, do you seriously think funding would be available for a jolly to the UK?
    Cambrian Patrol is not recognised as bone fide training ex this side of the pond, no more than a para jump in Texel is recognised as a military parachute jump.

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  13. #33
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    RGJ, if units are struggling to transport their troops to the Range for ARP, let alone parade night, do you seriously think funding would be available for a jolly to the UK?
    Cambrian Patrol is not recognised as bone fide training ex this side of the pond, no more than a para jump in Texel is recognised as a military parachute jump.
    Goldie, its worse than i thought.

    i give up on this.

    good luck with Cambrian Patrol 2012.

    however, if a team can be confirmed and needs a British Army sponsor then drop me a line and i'll see what i can do.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

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  15. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    As for the cost. If 58Bn can themselves get to New York to represent the RDF, then I'm sure the lads wouldn't object to buying a ferry ticket to Wales if the DF are too cheap to do so. I know I would.
    The difference is they aren't looking to bring ordnance with them!

    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    there is absolutely no way private funding should be considered for such an event.

    participation in the exercise should be proposed to a unit OC, he should approve it and that is your authority to do everything at public expense.
    +1

  16. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    RGJ, if units are struggling to transport their troops to the Range for ARP, let alone parade night, do you seriously think funding would be available for a jolly to the UK?
    Cambrian Patrol is not recognised as bone fide training ex this side of the pond, no more than a para jump in Texel is recognised as a military parachute jump.
    I'm not sure how it works, but is this something that any firm would be able (or prepared) to sponsor? Again, I don't know how feasible or appropriate it would be, but has anybody thought of it?
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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  18. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    I'm not sure how it works, but is this something that any firm would be able (or prepared) to sponsor? Again, I don't know how feasible or appropriate it would be, but has anybody thought of it?
    i have a good idea - how about the Irish DF sponsor it?
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  19. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    The difference is they aren't looking to bring ordnance with them!
    What difference does it make whether the kit goes to the Glen, the UK, or Leb? If it's signed for, then it's accounted for surely?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    I'm not sure how it works, but is this something that any firm would be able (or prepared) to sponsor? Again, I don't know how feasible or appropriate it would be, but has anybody thought of it?
    Can't see that being a runner unfortunately. Can you imagine the looks we'd get if the Irish Reserve Defence Forces rocked up in a "Paddy Wagon" bus??

    An initial quote for a transit van with 9 lads on the ferry to Holyhead (return) costs €920. Let's say it costs €200 in Fuel for the van (it shouldn't, but let's assume it does). PRRs, NVE, soft ordnance, costs nothing to issue out. 16x ration packs (I dunno what they cost individually). Pay for 1x CS (Sp team), 1x Lt, 1x Cpl, and 6x Ptes is €4,361.22.

    So the cost of this venture would be around €6000. Considering that all the ammo, pyro, Tpt, etc is provided for coustesy of HM Forces, I'd consider that investment as value for money considering what the team and the RDF as a whole get out of it! But then I would say that.

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  21. #38
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    you've pretty much confirmed that the cost and logistics for this venture is absolutely feck all, but the benefits are massive.

    i really really really hope you [someone] over there can do it.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  22. #39
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    fecks sake even the Greek Army can afford to do it:

    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

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  24. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    you've pretty much confirmed that the cost and logistics for this venture is absolutely feck all, but the benefits are massive.

    i really really really hope you [someone] over there can do it.
    That amount is what some units spend in a year on transport.

  25. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    That amount is what some units spend in a year on transport.
    But that's not the cost of just Tpt. It's pay, rations, fuel, and ferry fare.

  26. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    But that's not the cost of just Tpt. It's pay, rations, fuel, and ferry fare.
    its 10 men in a van to the UK - for fecks sake!
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  27. #43
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    sorry - just still cant believe cost is actually an issue here.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  28. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    sorry - just still cant believe cost is actually an issue here.
    Welcome to the economy. If the Gardai can't afford to replace 150 of their clapped out patrol cars that all have 300000km on them......

  29. #45
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    The problem will be getting permission. The cost won't really come into play.

  30. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo20 View Post
    The problem will be getting permission. The cost won't really come into play.

    It would when DOD got to hear about it!

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    I dunno, if the PDF are able to send teams to the States for shooting competitions, then I cant see why the RDF would be barred from this activity. Cost isn't really the issue, it's the politics that we need to get around, which is the problem

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  33. #48
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    I dunno, if the PDF are able to send teams to the States for shooting competitions, then I cant see why the RDF would be barred from this activity. Cost isn't really the issue, it's the politics that we need to get around, which is the problem
    military competition in Wales.

    what politics?
    RGJ

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  34. #49
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    RGJ, the RDF would be taking a gamble committing to the Cambrian patrol. Occasions would be rare whereby the RDF are stood among their foreign counterparts. So we generally only have ourselves and the PDF to compare against in terms of standards. So were we to go to Wales and be found wanting, it would be a huge embarrassment for whoever authorised it. So in order to avoid embarrassment, build up training would have to be authorised as well, meaning more cap in hand work.
    Lastly, I would imagine there are parties within the MA who wouldn't like an RDF proving themselves among equals on the world stage, for fear that it might show that the RDF can be useful.

    I'd rather we try and fail, than never try at all. Because failure in itself is a useful experience.

    But again, I'm sure with the right man at the helm, we can put together a strong team, and do well.
    Last edited by SwiftandSure; 5th February 2012 at 12:17.

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  36. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    RGJ, the RDF would be taking a gamble committing to the Cambrian patrol. Occasions would be rare whereby the RDF are stood among their foreign counterparts. So we generally only have ourselves and the PDF to compare against in terms of standards. So were we to go to Wales and be found wanting, it would be a huge embarrassment for whoever authorised it. So in order to avoid embarrassment, build up training would have to be authorised as well, meaning more cap in hand work.
    Lastly, I would imagine there are parties within the MA who wouldn't like an RDF proving themselves among equals on the world stage, for fear that it might show that the RDF can be useful.
    i have faith in men like you in th RDF.

    i was one of them once.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

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