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Air Corps and Mountain Rescue Joint Exercise

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  • #31
    Here is the Air Corps working with Donegal Mountain rescue (see the photos on the page)

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    • #32
      Hi all,

      Hey Bravo was it reek sunday by chance?... the Air Corps annually place an Air Corps Heli to CP on that weekend, the coast guard are always on call at Sligo. Im sure there was a reason for it been an Air Corps A/C on the day and not the private operator... OR perhaps they were busy on another call which happens from time to time

      DITH
      Hopefully the mayan's got it right and were all on a one way ticket outta here!!

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      • #33
        Here is the Air Corps working with Donegal Mountain rescue (see the photos on the page)
        http://www.mountainrescue.ie/AboutUs
        Photos are of Reek Sunday. A preplanned operation for one day a year that the Air Corps know about and plan in advance.

        And yet when I had to evacuate a woman who broke her leg off Croagh Patrick 5 years ago it was an Air Corps heli that arrived.
        One op in the last 5 years, I dont think that makes the Air Corps the primary rotary asset to MRTs outside the Pale. PS, was this also Reek Sunday?

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Tadpole View Post
          Photos are of Reek Sunday. A preplanned operation for one day a year that the Air Corps know about and plan in advance.


          One op in the last 5 years, I dont think that makes the Air Corps the primary rotary asset to MRTs outside the Pale. PS, was this also Reek Sunday?
          No, just a random weekend we decided to climb Croagh Patrick, happened to be in the right place with the right people and right equipment to help a stranger who broke her leg.

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          • #36
            Hi all,

            LOL, That job was completed by the 139 cause it happened to be down on manoeuvres with the ARW/navy in the area, and it was the closest asset capable of effecting the rescue, common sense prevailed for once... nothing more.

            Dith.
            Hopefully the mayan's got it right and were all on a one way ticket outta here!!

            Comment


            • #37
              Good to hear that on both occasions the Coast Guard utilised the closest assets, in this case IAC machines that were in the area on other operations. However, in 99% of all operations the IAC aren't the closet asset so can hardly be considered as a primary asset to MRTs.
              It also doesn't answer the question about whether civil personnel should be flying in military helicopters flying under military reg and procedures. Surely there's no great issue with the Air Corps gaining equivalent status for operations carrying civil personnel. It doesn't have to be an AOC but perhaps regs and procedures equivalent to an AOC operation with external, perhaps IAA oversight. That would quell all of these concerns. Surely that cant be so hard for the Air Corps.

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              • #38
                Next time you are stuck on a Mountain side and they send and Air Corps helicopter to rescue you, you can send it away as its procedures aren't up to speck.

                If the ICG doesn't have a problem deploying Air Corps assets so who died and made you God on this matter?

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                • #39
                  There's a GOD! .... (who wants to go there) LOL
                  Hopefully the mayan's got it right and were all on a one way ticket outta here!!

                  Comment


                  • #40
                    Getting a bit touchy there Bravo. Nobody made me God, I'm just asking a question that it seems you cannot answer and and are therefore having a shot at me for some reason. Let me rephase it for you.

                    1. Do you believe that members of the public, after all thats what MRT members are, should be afforded the same levels of safety while carrying out their jobs regardless of which aircraft they happen to be in? Its a simple yes or no question.

                    2. If the answer is yes then surely the IAC can see their way to establishing procedures based on best International practice while operating with civilians. How hard can it be for the IAC to do so? If it isn't a problem then its an easy fix, if it is a problem then that begs more questions then it answers.

                    3. If your answer is no and you think civilians should be exposed to differing levels of safety, well that would say it all.

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                    • #41
                      There's a GOD!
                      Yes Dirk, there is....and apparently its me so be careful or I'll smite thee!

                      Comment


                      • #42
                        Originally posted by jack nastyface View Post
                        .I would just suggest that given their safety record
                        11 crashes/write offs since 1969 ? - Source: Wings over Ireland (plus the 3 latest)

                        Originally posted by Tadpole View Post
                        1. Do you believe that members of the public, after all thats what MRT members are, should be afforded the same levels of safety while carrying out their jobs regardless of which aircraft they happen to be in? Its a simple yes or no question.
                        Should members of the DF not?

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                        • #43
                          I think I have answered the question. The IAC is considered a suitable and safe organisation for transporting civilians in all kind of conditions by:
                          1) The aviation authorities (or else they would be clambering to have them grounded)
                          2) The ICG who use them reasonably consistently
                          3) The mountain rescue organisations.
                          4) The general public who regularly ask why the Air Corp wasn't used

                          You have on this thread and on other threads consistently slandered the Air Corps safety reputation without any imperical evidence (except inuendo and opinions) and I want to know what makes you think that you are better positioned to form such an opinion over the four mentioned above.

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                          • #44
                            You have on this thread and on other threads consistently slandered the Air Corps safety reputation without any imperical evidence (except inuendo and opinions) and I want to know what makes you think that you are better positioned to form such an opinion over the four mentioned above.
                            Easy to call it slander just because you don't agree with the points I am making. The evidence has already been given on the PC9 thread for all to decide for themselves. The Air Corps have written off over 11 of their recent fleet of 54 aircraft and severely damaged another 7 aircraft. 20.4% written off and another almost 17% seriously damaged. Is that imperical enough for you?

                            Lets look at per flight hr, based on approx 6000hrs per year in the last 30years the AC will have flown approx 180,000 hrs. In the same time they have written off 11 aircraft, that's 1 aircraft written off per 16,300hrs. Including the 7 seriously damaged that's 1 serious accident very 10,000hrs. Is that imperical enough for you.

                            Assuming a base line of 100 pilots and a turnover of 6 pilots per year the total pilots numbers for the last 30 years is in the order of 280 pilots. That means that IAC pilots over the last 30 years have an approx. 1 in 40 chance of being killed in an accident. Is that imperical enough for you.

                            All of the above is public knowledge, you just need to put 1+2 together. What isn't known are the additional stats that aren't public knowledge.

                            Now for your other points:
                            The aviation authorities (or else they would be clambering to have them grounded)
                            They have no juristiction over military operations. Thats a big difference from being happy with it.

                            The ICG who use them reasonably consistently
                            The ICG use what is needed to get the job done, including fishing trawlers, pleasure craft and all the other resources such as the RNLI, IRCG boats etc. Do they all have the same level of capability / safety in SAR operations? Just because they are utilised to get a job done doesn't mean they endorse their methods nor is it a reason not to improve where possible.

                            The mountain rescue organisations. The general public who regularly ask why the Air Corp wasn't used
                            Do they have the facts? Show them some of the stats above and see what happens.

                            Now the questions remains:
                            Do YOU believe that members of the public, after all thats what MRT members are, should be afforded the same levels of safety while carrying out their jobs regardless of which aircraft they happen to be in? Its a simple yes or no question
                            Last edited by Tadpole; 7 February 2012, 21:09.

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                            • #45
                              Originally posted by Happyman View Post
                              This site should be renamed as the a forum for disgruntled CHC and CG personnel Bitch about the Air Corps. Serious lads grow up. Thought this was supposed to be a Forum where people like me that are interested in our national service man and women in that Air Corps and what they do. Not a sad bitching forum. This is a AC page not a CG/CHC/CR, get your own.
                              In fairness Happy,I wasnt bitching about the Corps,I wish it well and am intrested in our national service men and women,and their safety.It was only an observation. God.(not Tadpole) talk about people getting their my little ponys in a knot.

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