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  • There are 27 recipients of the DSM with Honour, 13 of them are generals. It was issued sparingly (even to generals, usually only if they were also force commanders somewhere) up until the early 90s and since then all the COS received the DSM except for Sean McCann (assuming the list on military.ie is correct), I wonder what he did wrong? On current trend VADM Mellet will get a second DSM (this time with honour) on his retirement.

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    • Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
      There are 27 recipients of the DSM with Honour, 13 of them are generals. It was issued sparingly (even to generals, usually only if they were also force commanders somewhere) up until the early 90s and since then all the COS received the DSM except for Sean McCann (assuming the list on military.ie is correct), I wonder what he did wrong? On current trend VADM Mellet will get a second DSM (this time with honour) on his retirement.


      Note DSM on his chest

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      • My bad. Transcription error by me. So to correct my statement all the COS since the early nineties have received the DSM with Honour

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        • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
          No... he got paid every week to do his job and promoted on his ability!

          Another devaluation of the medal...
          The medal is for distinguished service, it is not a medal for bravery or heroics or gallantry. We have another medal for that.

          This is a medal that denotes distinguished service. Leading the UN's largest peacekeeping force, being the only FC that is also HOM is as good as it gets. His most recent post had him command more troops than the Irish DF and unlike the COS he was actually in command.

          What do you think he could have done differently?

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          • Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
            The medal is for distinguished service, it is not a medal for bravery or heroics or gallantry. We have another medal for that.

            This is a medal that denotes distinguished service. Leading the UN's largest peacekeeping force, being the only FC that is also HOM is as good as it gets. His most recent post had him command more troops than the Irish DF and unlike the COS he was actually in command.

            What do you think he could have done differently?
            The snag is that the DSM has also been awarded for acts of bravery and Gallantry when perhaps another medla should have been awarded.This is what muddies the waters.
            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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            • I agree that being Force Commander does denote distinguished service. However as APOD said this medal is also awarded for bravery and the DSM that is issued to Generals is the highest in that order. In my view it is the constant awarding to COS on retirement that has devalued it. This did not happen prior to 1992.

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              • Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
                The medal is for distinguished service, it is not a medal for bravery or heroics or gallantry. We have another medal for that.

                This is a medal that denotes distinguished service. Leading the UN's largest peacekeeping force, being the only FC that is also HOM is as good as it gets. His most recent post had him command more troops than the Irish DF and unlike the COS he was actually in command.

                What do you think he could have done differently?
                DSM can be awarded for “bravery, courage, leadership, resource or devotion to duty...”

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                • Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
                  The medal is for distinguished service, it is not a medal for bravery or heroics or gallantry. We have another medal for that.

                  This is a medal that denotes distinguished service. Leading the UN's largest peacekeeping force, being the only FC that is also HOM is as good as it gets. His most recent post had him command more troops than the Irish DF and unlike the COS he was actually in command.

                  What do you think he could have done differently?
                  Again the medal in its formats has been awarded for different reasons to different people with absolutely no consistency. I would invite you to read the citations that have accompanied the award since 1960... everything for making tea...to turning up for work. Awarding a medal on retirement to a senior officer is a kick in the teeth to those who in their own rank did the job over and above what was required every day of the week for their entire service....

                  Persons carried out acts of personal sacrifice and bravery and weren't awarded any medals.... but because he's the top of the food chain he gets a medal.

                  Its nothing against the man, I'm sure he is a fine soldier... but he came to work, got promoted paid and pensioned.... and someone within the system decided it would be 'nice' if he got a medal.

                  it took six years and a breach of the statute for the crew of D248 to get the same medal..... for their unwitting part in a huge fcuk up!...and we put a retiring general on the same playing field...I don't think so!

                  Again its not about the man. The award system needs to be revisited and specific awards for this type of service made... The Good Conduct or 'Twenty one years of undetected crime' medal, same thing handed out like water!


                  We need to look at things like meritous unit citations where whole units have been worthy of awards but only certain parties get awards, the CoS himself brought this matter to a head with the 'Brime' arrest and it was a case of nominate a couple of guys or no one gets anything!!!!!

                  A retired officer recently got a DSM after his career died....( happens when someone gets murdered on your ship and you make a bollocks of yourself in tthe courtroom) and he had retired....for an an incident that no one remembers... If they couldn't give it to him while serving why did he deserve it all.


                  They couldn't award medals for the Cliona incident because the people who jumped ship were never prosecuted and came up witha scroll instead.... saving a ship and suffering burns in the incident seems to be a little more gallant than leading from behind a desk.....


                  I could name specific incidents where people should have got medals but didn't because it was deemed in appropriate to highlight deficiences in the system that allowed incidents to take lace that led to people taking risks and carrying out actions that were above and beyond....as can many persons who served.

                  So my opinion remains as it has been......
                  Last edited by hptmurphy; 5 September 2018, 21:57.
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                  • I think part of the problem is the reluctance to award the MMG, instead awarding the DSM for actions where a higher award would be justified.
                    At its core, it is in the medal title. "distinguished service", as opposed to "gallantry".
                    Gen Beary's service, compared to others can definitely be considered distinguished. He was FC at a time of huge transition in UNIFIL. Indeed he faced the wrath of the Israeli backed Trump Government head on, who accused UNIFIL , and Gen Beary of ignoring the inflow of illegal weapons to Hezballah in South Lebanon. https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ms-trafficking
                    However I do think his service is not as distinguished (with Honour) as that of Mick Baker or Paddy Mooney who earned theirs being killed because the Air Corps cut corners. Or that of Sgt Gerard Lanigan, who according to his citation gave medical aid to a Fijian soldier while under fire in Lebanon. Or the Air Corps crew who carried out the rescue at Mukish Mountain by night in aircraft only suitable for daytime operations.
                    There is no consistency. Some generals have got the Medal with Honour, others with merit.
                    I do not begrudge these men their awards, but there should be a clear class for Generals who turned up for work every day and a different class for soldiers who risked or gave their life during the course of their duties to help and protect others.
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                    • All the generals that received the DSM for their service, received the DSM with honour.

                      Look at the list

                      The Defence Forces Information Office is responsible for providing accurate and timely information to members of the general public as well as serving and past members of the Defence Forces.

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                      • The current FOCNS has never commanded a ship. He is the first officer in this appointment who followed that particular career path.
                        Here is a discussion from the UK of the suggestion that the future First Sea Lord may not have come from a non-warfare career path.

                        Is the Royal Navy missing out on talented leaders by only appointing Warfare Officers to the post of First Sea Lord? What are the benefits and constraints?


                        The Chief Executive and Chairman of British Airways is Spanish businessman called Álex Cruz de Llano. Although he has a degree in Industrial Engineering he has spent his entire career managing the businesses of major Airlines. There is no suggestion in any online biography (that the author could find) that he is a pilot of any description, even as a hobby, let alone an airline captain. Having checked the biographies of the Chairmen of each of the 20 Premier League football clubs, the author could similarly find no evidence (albeit a cursory search of the Wikipedia profiles doesn’t necessarily preclude it completely) that any of them have played professional football at all, much less in the Premier League itself. Whilst this is a small sample, there appears to be a strong trend that large, high performing organisations are not led by people who are necessarily practitioners in the business at which their organisation excels.
                        There are plenty of similar examples and, indeed, apparently few sectors of the economy where the opposite is true. The deduction from this would seem to be that the skills required for strategic leadership of such organisations are different to those required to manage that actual operational activity of the organisation. The Armed Forces appear to be an exception and this short article will examine why that is so and if, in the modern context, this should remain the case with the associated costs and opportunities.
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                        • New GOC DFTC has been selected

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                          • Are you going to keep us in suspense?

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                            • Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
                              New GOC DFTC has been selected
                              So Brig Gen Mulligan is retiring then. Met him once - seems like a decent guy. And I get the same vibe from posts I've seen on social media from folk who served under him down the years.
                              Am making an educated guess and saying his successor is not currently serving in DFTC...
                              "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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                              • Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
                                New GOC DFTC has been selected
                                old news...

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