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Thread: New Generals?

  1. #1
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    New Generals?

    From the Dail Yesterday
    As of 31 December 2011 there was one vacancy at the rank of major general and one vacancy at the rank of brigadier general. Promotion competitions to fill these vacancies are currently under way. There were six and 12 vacancies, respectively, at the ranks of colonel and lieutenant colonel. The number of vacancies cited has been calculated based on the total number of Permanent Defence Force personnel specified in the employment control framework, which is 10,000. Once the reorganisation has been completed, it will be necessary to recalculate the number of vacancies based on the outcome of that process and in light of a reduced strength of 9,500.

    For the interest of Members of the House, the promotion competition for major general is taking place on 22 and 24 February; that for brigadier general is on 13, 20 and 21 February; that for colonel is on 12 March; that for the Army engineer corps is on 4 to 5 April; and there are a range of other dates between February and April on which the various other competitions for vacant positions will take place. Without major delay, I am expecting to be in a position to announce promotions once the independent boards have sat, the applications have been assessed and the recommendations have been furnished to me.
    1x Maj Gen(22,24feb)
    1x Brig Gen(13,20/21feb)
    6x Col(12Mar)
    12x Lt Col(??)

    A future COS will most definitely be amongst those promoted after the competitions above. Is there any bright and shining lights coming up the officer ranks, that aren't close to retirement, who can steer the DF through the White paper process, in the days of recession, while still keeping a credible and efficient Defence Force?

  2. #2
    Lt General Bravo20's Avatar
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    So the Minister announces that he wants to reduce the establishment of the DF, yet he continues to promote the most senior ranks based on the old structure. JOBS FOR THE BOYS , the pile of hypocrits. As regards to "one shining light" who may be our COS, the only general worth his salt passed when Lt Gen Earley died. The rest of them are worthless and the fact that they are pushing for these positions shows that they have absolutely no interest in reforming the DF. It should be noted that throughout the moratorium on promotion in the DF the general appointments did not remain vacant too long while junior more important (and cheaper) appointments remained vacant.

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    If the COS/DOD say that the 2 brigade structure means that a Major-General will be the COS what are they going to do?

    Having said that due to their duties GOCs and DCOSs are vital posts.

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    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    If the COS/DOD say that the 2 brigade structure means that a Major-General will be the COS what are they going to do?

    Having said that due to their duties GOCs and DCOSs are vital posts.
    The CoS position has been held by a Maj-Gen in the past, so no reason why this could not happen

    Would be hard with all the reductions and struggling to maintain the 9,500 level, to justify the same
    number of personnel in the General Staff, in my opinion

    The D CoS positions would revert to Brig-Gen ranks... PDFORRA will go nuts if the status quo is maintained,
    if their membership is being shredded (numbers, pay, etc etc)
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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    Ridiculous.

    Not in the least bit surprising though.

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    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    What about those outside the army? Will the Army let someone not in a green uniform hold the top job?

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    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    What about those outside the army? Will the Army let someone not in a green uniform hold the top job?
    We already let an Air Corps lad in and the whole Country went into recession- imagine what would happen if a sea hag was given a real job.
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

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    ltsmarty
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    Brig Gen

    A 2nd Brig Gen vacancy arose last week, i wonder will that be added to the honey pot !?

  12. #9
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    And when they promote all the lt colonels, there will be more lt col vacancies to fill, then there'll be colonel vacancies, and more brig gen vacancies etc.

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    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    The rank structure does not equate to what we have on paper. We do not need the rank structure as currently exists within the Army.Given we have Lt Cols holding positions that other armies would have Captains holding, its a ridiculous set up.

    Jobs for the boys, pension them off.
    Just visiting

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    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Back to the old joke, what do call a Commandant who can't get a job in civvy street...... A Lt Colonel.

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    Closed Account ZULU's Avatar
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    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Any IMOers going for any of the jobs? (as he looks meaningfully at Hedgie )
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  20. #14
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Given we have Lt Cols holding positions that other armies would have Captains holding, its a ridiculous set up.
    Such as ? In the main Lt Colonels are COs of major units, 2ICs/SOs to Directors and ICs of Schools in the DFTC

  21. #15
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Such as ? In the main Lt Colonels are COs of major units, 2ICs/SOs to Directors and ICs of Schools in the DFTC
    There are loads holding office posts in directorates, admin officers in brigade hqs and assorted accounting positions in DFHQ.

  22. #16
    C/S
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    So what do we need based on current / authorised strength? Should one start at the bottom in making such calculations?

    Surely the AC & NS don't need general level offices to command battalion-sized organisations.

    Generals
    CoS
    DCoS x 2/3?
    Brigades x 2
    Others x ??

    Colonels
    NS
    AC
    Directorates x ??
    Battallions x ??
    Others x ??
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

  23. #17
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    The NS manages to survive with the equavalent of :
    LtGen x 1(FOCNS- If you don't have a seat at the general staff table, you'll soon be forgotton, like the RDF)
    Col x2 (one for ops-NOC , the other for tech-NSC)
    Lt Col x 11 (including one who commands Eithne and one who is Commandant Naval College, then there's Ops Command, Shore Ops, Support Command, Logs, MarEng, Dockyard, WEU,)
    Comdt x 38 (8 of whom would be commanding the ships at any one time, there is currently 13 vacancies at this rank, the rest commanding shore units such as intel, FMC,NCC,Flotilla,Security, Comcen,Diving, NSR,Boat Transport, Medical, CSS, Tech Stores-kept busy accepting tenders for drydocking,accom, maint, road trans, dockyard, fleet support, EE, Coms, ord, College HQ, TT School, Line training, Officer training etc).
    The key, at Comdt equivalent however is the strict rotation from shore to sea every 2 years for exec branch. Nobody at this point will spend their career hiding behind a desk.
    Even the current FOCNS only stepped off his last command in 2004. His predecessor had a similarly short gap between ships captain to Flag officer.
    Meanwhile, middle grade army officers are in limbo at captain and colonel rank for years, gradually losing touch with the reality of life at the muddy end, until all their classmates have retired to be the last man standing, and eventual promotion, where an unfortunate NCO has to familiarise them with what the DF has been up to from 3 star to lieutenant during their wilderness years, where they wore brown shoes and cream shirts to work every day, and wondered why nobody outside their office did.

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    Cake and Arse Party. They couldnt give a shite about reform.

  25. #19
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    I have saad it before again and again, Top heavy, get rid of half of them , most of them a self serving bunch of useless Pr----that I would not trust to walk a dog on a lead. and lets not forget the nepotism .. But then again its probably just a reflection of the dail and politicians that are elected time and time again. we need a revolution, hand out the AKs.

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  27. #20
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Some interesting points here. Face it there's never really been a doubt this will go ahead. The exact same happened for the GS during the week.

    The best to be hoped for is it will unlock the lower tiers of promotion as the bootlickers move upwards. ( personally I'd like to be promoted too, moves off to lick nearest boots )

    However ( and I'm sure the PDF and the GS are the same ) the RDF organizations can survive perfectly well without officer promotions for a good bit longer. The situation for NCOs, however, is both untenable and awful as brilliant youngsters are sitting in ranks and not getting a chance to move up; it affects their long term careers.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  28. #21
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    In the main Lt Colonels are COs of major units, 2ICs/SOs to Directors and ICs of Schools in the DFTC
    You have cavalry squadrons equivalent to coy strenght being commanded by commandants where a captain manages a company in most other armies.

    Signals, engineers, all corps sized units are top heavy with officers.

    Strnght for a cavalry squadron includes 9 Lts.......to do the job of about 4 sergeants.

    Heads of departemnts on ships role held by officers who usually less qualified that a senior NCO from the same branch. Chief ERA and Chief mech on a ship report to a S/lt eng....who has a fraction of the experience service and qualifications.

    We have Capts and Commandants flyiong helos that Sergeants can in other air wings...The air Corps itself does warrant anything more that a Lt Col half a dozen Cmdts, a dozen Captains, double that for LTs, and have sergeant pilots......

    A Lt could command a PV and smaller, Eithne dosen't need a Lt CDR exec..who possibly has been a ships captain his own right.

    Positions created to justift higher up ranks... Directorates and schools..my ****ing arse, a reasonable size primary school runs more effeciently with a principal and half a dozen teachers and a little bit of admin support.
    Just visiting

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  30. #22
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    well said HPT
    and the crazy thing iS when I was an NCO I was inexperienced yet had more on the ground reponsibility than those lazy f..,.s
    Only officer I had any respect for was Vinnie Savino

  31. #23
    Major General
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    The inshore/coastal patrol of RN for home waters which has about sim overall tonnage/crew as NS is headed up by a Commander.

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  33. #24
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    The inshore/coastal patrol of RN for home waters which has about sim overall tonnage/crew as NS is headed up by a Commander.
    True, but they have one less officer than us. They start as Sub Lieutenants, our Juniors start as Ensigns, and become Sub Lieutenants when they have secured their watchkeepers ticket.

  34. #25
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    I have a lot of respect for those holding the ranks they do, its not an anti office jibe, just I don't think we need as many as we have..across the DF as a whole. the same can be said for mangers in the public service, and being a public service line manager I put my own head on the block. I only exist in my post because it was defined to head up a structure that in itself possibly shouldn't exist,and tbhif the organisation of where I work , a hospital, I could eliminate about 70% of the management and run it more efficientlky having come from the private sector and seeing how management structures can work with the right people.

    The DF is no different, but as long as the DF mirrors the public service or Vice Versa we are going to be crippled with unnesscary appointments.
    Just visiting

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