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  • #16
    So what do we need based on current / authorised strength? Should one start at the bottom in making such calculations?

    Surely the AC & NS don't need general level offices to command battalion-sized organisations.

    Generals
    CoS
    DCoS x 2/3?
    Brigades x 2
    Others x ??

    Colonels
    NS
    AC
    Directorates x ??
    Battallions x ??
    Others x ??
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

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    • #17
      The NS manages to survive with the equavalent of :
      LtGen x 1(FOCNS- If you don't have a seat at the general staff table, you'll soon be forgotton, like the RDF)
      Col x2 (one for ops-NOC , the other for tech-NSC)
      Lt Col x 11 (including one who commands Eithne and one who is Commandant Naval College, then there's Ops Command, Shore Ops, Support Command, Logs, MarEng, Dockyard, WEU,)
      Comdt x 38 (8 of whom would be commanding the ships at any one time, there is currently 13 vacancies at this rank, the rest commanding shore units such as intel, FMC,NCC,Flotilla,Security, Comcen,Diving, NSR,Boat Transport, Medical, CSS, Tech Stores-kept busy accepting tenders for drydocking,accom, maint, road trans, dockyard, fleet support, EE, Coms, ord, College HQ, TT School, Line training, Officer training etc).
      The key, at Comdt equivalent however is the strict rotation from shore to sea every 2 years for exec branch. Nobody at this point will spend their career hiding behind a desk.
      Even the current FOCNS only stepped off his last command in 2004. His predecessor had a similarly short gap between ships captain to Flag officer.
      Meanwhile, middle grade army officers are in limbo at captain and colonel rank for years, gradually losing touch with the reality of life at the muddy end, until all their classmates have retired to be the last man standing, and eventual promotion, where an unfortunate NCO has to familiarise them with what the DF has been up to from 3 star to lieutenant during their wilderness years, where they wore brown shoes and cream shirts to work every day, and wondered why nobody outside their office did.


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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      • #18
        Cake and Arse Party. They couldnt give a shite about reform.

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        • #19
          I have saad it before again and again, Top heavy, get rid of half of them , most of them a self serving bunch of useless Pr----that I would not trust to walk a dog on a lead. and lets not forget the nepotism .. But then again its probably just a reflection of the dail and politicians that are elected time and time again. we need a revolution, hand out the AKs.

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          • #20
            Some interesting points here. Face it there's never really been a doubt this will go ahead. The exact same happened for the GS during the week.

            The best to be hoped for is it will unlock the lower tiers of promotion as the bootlickers move upwards. ( personally I'd like to be promoted too, moves off to lick nearest boots )

            However ( and I'm sure the PDF and the GS are the same ) the RDF organizations can survive perfectly well without officer promotions for a good bit longer. The situation for NCOs, however, is both untenable and awful as brilliant youngsters are sitting in ranks and not getting a chance to move up; it affects their long term careers.
            "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

            "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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            • #21
              In the main Lt Colonels are COs of major units, 2ICs/SOs to Directors and ICs of Schools in the DFTC
              You have cavalry squadrons equivalent to coy strenght being commanded by commandants where a captain manages a company in most other armies.

              Signals, engineers, all corps sized units are top heavy with officers.

              Strnght for a cavalry squadron includes 9 Lts.......to do the job of about 4 sergeants.

              Heads of departemnts on ships role held by officers who usually less qualified that a senior NCO from the same branch. Chief ERA and Chief mech on a ship report to a S/lt eng....who has a fraction of the experience service and qualifications.

              We have Capts and Commandants flyiong helos that Sergeants can in other air wings...The air Corps itself does warrant anything more that a Lt Col half a dozen Cmdts, a dozen Captains, double that for LTs, and have sergeant pilots......

              A Lt could command a PV and smaller, Eithne dosen't need a Lt CDR exec..who possibly has been a ships captain his own right.

              Positions created to justift higher up ranks... Directorates and schools..my ****ing arse, a reasonable size primary school runs more effeciently with a principal and half a dozen teachers and a little bit of admin support.
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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              • #22
                well said HPT
                and the crazy thing iS when I was an NCO I was inexperienced yet had more on the ground reponsibility than those lazy f..,.s
                Only officer I had any respect for was Vinnie Savino

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                • #23
                  The inshore/coastal patrol of RN for home waters which has about sim overall tonnage/crew as NS is headed up by a Commander.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by danno View Post
                    The inshore/coastal patrol of RN for home waters which has about sim overall tonnage/crew as NS is headed up by a Commander.
                    True, but they have one less officer than us. They start as Sub Lieutenants, our Juniors start as Ensigns, and become Sub Lieutenants when they have secured their watchkeepers ticket.


                    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                    • #25
                      I have a lot of respect for those holding the ranks they do, its not an anti office jibe, just I don't think we need as many as we have..across the DF as a whole. the same can be said for mangers in the public service, and being a public service line manager I put my own head on the block. I only exist in my post because it was defined to head up a structure that in itself possibly shouldn't exist,and tbhif the organisation of where I work , a hospital, I could eliminate about 70% of the management and run it more efficientlky having come from the private sector and seeing how management structures can work with the right people.

                      The DF is no different, but as long as the DF mirrors the public service or Vice Versa we are going to be crippled with unnesscary appointments.
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                        True, but they have one less officer than us. They start as Sub Lieutenants, our Juniors start as Ensigns, and become Sub Lieutenants when they have secured their watchkeepers ticket.
                        GF,is Flag a Brigadier or a LtGen as your previous post suggests.

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                        • #27
                          The Flag is a Brigadier Gen not a Lt Gen, it was a typo by GF

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ltsmarty View Post
                            A 2nd Brig Gen vacancy arose last week, i wonder will that be added to the honey pot !?
                            Who's gone ?
                            "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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                            • #29
                              GOC South.


                              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Last week [Tuesday 7th Feb 2012] the Justice Minister in formed the Dail as follows....

                                356. Deputy Michael Healy-Rae asked the Minister for Justice and Equality his views on a matter (details supplied) regarding Garda numbers. [6252/12]

                                Minister for Justice and Equality (Deputy Alan Shatter): .......... Reductions in Garda strength must be seen in the context of a wider programme aimed at reducing the size of the public service, and will contribute to reducing expenditure and complying with the terms of the EU-IMF agreement.

                                Today I have secured Cabinet approval for the appointment of 2 Assistant Garda Commissioners, 8 Chief Superintendents and 23 Superintendents, a total of 33 appointments to senior Garda ranks. All of the consequential vacancies at Sergeant and Inspector ranks will also be filled. I was very glad to secure the agreement of my colleague, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, and the Cabinet as a whole for such a significant number of appointments. In seeking these promotions, I was conscious of the need to enable the Garda Commissioner to fill key positions in the senior ranks, and to maintain both the investigative and also the management and supervisory capacity of the Force. .........

                                Is it beyond hope that the same deal/offer would be applied to the Defence Forces for whom the same Minister [Deputy Alan Shatter] has oversight!!!!!!!

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